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IAGPA-F-SD
1 July 1983
MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD
SUBJECT: CENTER LANE Interview Summary - CL-1024/8303/01 (U)
SG1A
4. (U) A DA Form 341 (Agent Report) was prepared for the
sponsor. This report related the salient points of the
interview. Attached as an exhibit to the DA Form 341 was a copy
of source's drawings (see Incl 3).
3 Incl
as
'F K /H/.ATWATER
CPT, MI
OPS/TNG Officer
CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, DAMI-ISH
DTG: 051630ZJUL78
DECL: Originating Agency's
Determination Required
SG1
A
Release 2003/Ab
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fV
1q-01T nLF,11,sABLz TO
3. (U) A transcript of the interview was prepared including a
narrative explanation of the drawings which source provided (see
Incl 2).
SG1C
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SE IRET
TRANSCRIPT
#66: This will be a CENTER LANE Interview for 0900 hours
28 June 1983. Focus now today on the area in the
photograph I've shown, solely completely today on
the area in the photograph, the east end. Describe
your perceptions to me.
PAUSE
#01: It's not fully occupied. See a ..ramp, externals
are installed ..... All wires are in
place .... maintenance present ... but the building's
not ... not fully occupied yet.
#66: Break that out.
#01: ..See empty sections of building. Upper floors
are-mostly occupied, lower floors aren't.
#66: I'm interested exclusively on the new structure on
the roof.
#01: Just a minuter see a ramp,..see a ramp there.
It's operating now ... There's a.. screen
@o*v*in*g*,* "moves up and down and side to side.
... Trying to look for something
new,..different .... Everything is balanced. I don't
know what that means, but everything is balanced.
#66: Dollhouse view?
#01: See perfect a..perfect screens, fields .... all
Zi@c*trically balanced .... Ah ... wave arrival is
critical,...horizontally and vertically.
..... Impression of microwave link . ..... Um ... it1s
in the ... center .... two kinds ... one's collected and
one's .... specific,...specifically sought. Trying
to.. see deeper into this .... I see a large screen
with-many rows of wave forms ... one on top of the
other.
#66: Break out screens.
#01: Video, square, large.
#66: Video display screens?
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#01: That's correct. Other screens too, but different
location, back in the outside.
#66: Okay. Describe dollhouse view of the way this area
is organized.
#01: ... Fine mesh screens, east side of ..just a minute.
three parts to the building,..top area,
6 6 Excuse me, are we talking about just the newly
constructed portion here, when you say three parts?
#01: No.
#66: Okay.
#01: ... That's one part.
#66: Okay. I'm interested in a dollhouse perspective of
just this newly constructed portion.
#01: Okay, just a minute.
#66: It's much, much too broad of an area to examine this
whole building, I want just this one little area on
top.
#01:	From the outside in, it's a ... fine mesh
'
*
	s,...ah .... get a one-way shield
@@;@e
n
	impression,..oval, more screen on inside ... of
	shield. ..... bank of tubes against wall, coldr
	tubes are cold .... plate ... angular plate or a curved
	plate,...with some black square, nodule,
	centered, ..heavy grid in the floor. ...See a metal
	gauze, a gauze type elementr looks like cotton,..
	but it's metal.
#66:	Location?
#01:	...... Ceiling inside, sealed walls ...... I
	a... vertical, horizontal wave angles, very important.
#66:	Raw data.
#01:	Just keep seeing spurious angular views
	of ... arriving at screen shields,... sensor feeling,
	like a ... no,...catching some various wave . .........
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6 6 Focusing on the newly constructed portion on the
roof, east end of the roof herer study this
dollhouse perspective so that you may draw it for me.
PAUSE
#01: Go ahead.
#66: Okay. Now focusing exclusively on this newly
constructed portion of the roof, east end, today
27-28 June 1983, describe the operational status.
#01: ..It's fully capabler but not being used. This
portion's finished. Other portion isn't.
#66: Break out other portion.
#01: Analysis portion, located in-building somewhere.
... Just room of cabinets and-display screens,...not
all manned. ...... Impression it's waiting on
people. Some kind of move or something, ..shifting
around of people . ....... Then it goes to a test
phase, . iron out bugs . . . . Then outside taskers
are ... will be given access . ........... Impression
of targeting, cross spectrum,...but mostly
a ... wildcat microwave, . radar type signals .... One
for information, one for identification. ... Itis
a..never been done before capability.
#66: Break that out.
#01: This will be first place they have done
this,...operationally.
#66: Raw data.
#01: Feeling of excitement and anticipation, newness,
great expansion capability.
#66: Break out capability.
#01: ---.Across the board tremendous increase in
collection. W@@z * Surprised at distance, I get
impression of a 1,000 miles ranger a .... great
distance for.. spurious wave form and microwave
frequencies, ..radar frequencies. .......... getting
something else, but I..can't break it out.
#66: 1 will wait.
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#01: SDmething
@n* :a major
.... Specific
sensitive ... to
employees are
mission.
to do with first..tap in
network, specific network.
equipment mission is ... very
even their employees. ..Their
even told a ..... different story on
#66: Am I to understand that the nature of this new
capability is concealed from the employees?
#01: Most employees, that's correct. .... The actual
control network they're ... tapping or touching..is
a..first time ever. I keep getting a..I don't think
it's overlay, but I keep getting the impression of
nuclear subs. Is a ..... kind of..comm network with
nuclear subs, or ...... about nuclear subs . So I
don't know, that's all I get.
#66: All right . Review now for drawing purposes two
views: 1, the dollhouse view of the newly
constructed portion, east end of the roof . Number
2, the analysis area in the main building or the
area that you have identified as one with screens,
display screens.
#01: Okay.
#66: All right. I have no further questions.
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DRAWING EXPLANATION
#01: Okay, drawing #1 is a cut away of the top of the
building, just the newly constructed area. This is
the area I said was accessible by a rampt now that
we have a ramp built into this area for some
reason. Working from the center out there is a
curved angular plate type reflector device that
moves up and down and sideways. Actually it's got
more movement than that, it's got like the full
rotary movement of the wristr your hand, it'll move
all directions. There's a black sensor type box in
the center. Outside that is cold wall or screen
type wall that's real cold and it's got a lot of
vertical lines inside and outside. But on the
inside there's affixed two rows of some kind of
reflector or blocking grid type things. They're
fastened in rows, two rows around the inside of the
cold wall. Then outside of all of that, the
exterior wall is a screen grid and it's very evenly
broken up into separate little blocks and things.
Underneath there's a false floor with, and it's
completely shielded . And underneath that is all
kinds of wires, just a spaghetti full of wires.
#66: At one point herey you talked about a one way wall
or one way---
#01: Yeah, the cold wall is a one way wall . It's like
something penetrates the exterior wall and the angle
and deflection, the sideways angle and the up and
down angle's important as to the way it goes through
the wall. But once it goes through the wall, any
attempt for it to come back out through the wall,
you know, by bouncing out or anything, is blocked by
this inside reflector grid, these rows of whatever.
You know, I just get a feeling like this particle
penetrating through this cold wall and then bouncing
around inside the cold wall until it either hits or
it hits the angular plate collector, you know the
the reflector-
#66: Okay, now when you talk about angles of, say that
again what you said about angles.
#01: The angle of elevation and the angle of side-to-side.
#66: Of What?
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#01: The wave, and I'm talking micron type waves, I'm
talking radars and microwave.
#66: Okay, now let me put that in other words other than
remote viewing words and see if that's what you're
talking about. Are you talking wave form
polarization? You know how with an antenna you
either polorize it horizontally or vertically or
anywhere in between, if you're talking about smaller
wave lengths . Are you talking about wave form
polarization?
#01: That has to do with it, yes. But that's only one
element of what it has to do.
#66: Okay.
#01: Yes. That's like one of many parts, elements that's
important.
#66: Okay. A wave form can come off a radiator in
certain polarizations
#01: Yes, I know. I agree.
#66: And it can be in different frequencies.
#01: 1 agree.
6 6 So in terms of capturing higher frequency wave
lengths, you're talking about wave guides and a
polarization of a wave guide would depend upon the
radiated or the reflected energy it was attempting
to capture.
#01:	1 agree.	And that's important.	
#66:	Okay.		
#01:	Page #2,,	there's a room inside the building	that
	deals with this exterior portion.	
#66:	Is inside	the greater, larger building?	
#01:	Yeah, it'	s like in the top two floors. I wouldn't
	say it's	in the very center of the top floor
	though.	It' s like on the outer edges of the	top
	floor and	part of the second floor, whatever	that
	means. There's, I've depicted this angular,	it's
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like three cabinets together and there' s three sets
of these all in the same room. They're like equal
distance based in a triangle. I get an impression
of video, two video screens, one in each cabinet and
then the right hand cabinet is all lights and
switches, black boxes, lights and switches. The
video screens, the one in the center, the center
cabinet, is essentially black or dark, with white
lines,, not vertical or anything,, but with white
lines that show up in different configurations and
then numbers superimposed on the screen that move
around. The screen to the left is like divided up
into fifteen horizontal sections. It's a light gray
and it has dark line that represents what looks.like
some form of frequency spiking. And they're all
different and they keep overlaying one another.
It's like a presentation of a great number of
frequency ranges all at the same time, all random
and all spurious. Both of these represent two
distinctly separate missions that this equipment is
involved in . Both are automated but permit some
form of human interface, maybe it has to do with
analysis or the recording of the equipment. It's
automated collection or whatever, I don't know.
That's essentially what I see in that room.
#66: Okay,, now I'll want to try to clarify something
here. You said two separate missions, now
previously when you talked about the intercept
technology upstairs, you talked about two kinds of
signals. Okay, let me clarify it. First of all you
flip-flop between radar and microwave and maybe
you're describing a range of frequencies with that
or maybe you're describing two separate missions.
You also go on to further describe, one being an
information collection and the other being an
identity collection. And then again, here at this
point, you have talked about two separate missions.
Can you clarify those points?
#01: No. There's a, I just get a feeling of two missions.
#66: Do you recall talking about this idea of one is
intercept for information and the other is intercept
for identity.
#01: Yes. Those are the two missions. But, if, I don't
know which is which, I don't know if the microwave
is the information and the radar is the identity or
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if the radar is the information and the microwave is
the identity. There's some, there's a reason for
the combination of the two. You know, it's like--
#66: And now you've got like two different screens--
#01: Without the oner the other wouldn't be of any value.
#66: Okay.
#01: And at the same time that I was getting into this
duality of mission, there appears to be a third
sub-category of knowledgeability that then becomes
apparent further on down the line, after all this
information is analyzed and amassed and digitalized
and filed in a computer and whatnot. Then there is
a third mission category or another group of people
that are very, very compartmented even within their
own area. And from that collated data, they are in
turn, able to collate and extract third mission data
that is of even more impressive importance and I get
a lot of overlay about nuclear submarines. You
know, I get a lot of a---
#66: Is this that you're addressing now, this new first
time available thing that you were describing?
#01: Yes, yes. And they' re going to a great deal of
masking and extremes to .... to hide this, hide is not
a right word, to subvert attention from this
capability, I don't know, I'm getting lost now.
#66: 1 understand. But you think that this capability,
this new capability might be submarine
communications?
#01: Yeah, but I don't know if it's theirs or ours.
Maybe it's combining the two informations, they come
up with an absence of something that allows them to
#66: Whatever, let it you know---
#01: --Tap into or penetrate communications, I don't, you
know, I'm just getting an impression. I'm talking
around what I'm trying to say and I don't know how
to break out what I was getting.
#66: Okay.
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#01: You know, just giving gastaltics about what I was
getting it .
6 6 Okay. But there is something about this thing that
they have put on the roof and the operation that is
something new, that's something that they have never
been capable of doing.
#01: Absolutely.
#66: And that it is so new, that many of the people that
work there don't know about it.
#01: That's correct.
#66: And that you have an impression that this may have
something to do with communications of nuclear
submarines or submarine communications?
#01: Yes. That's correct.
#66: Okay.
#01: And that's essentially it.
#66: Okay, good.
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SG1
For use of this form, see FM 30-17(C); AR 381-20; the proponent agency Is the office of the Assistant Ch of of Sta f for nte 19once.
1. NAME OF $UBJECI OR TITLE OF INCIDENT 2. DATE SUBMITTED
3. CONTROL SYMBOL OR FILE NUMBER
CL-1024/8303/01
4. RIEPWT C# FINDINGS
-01 was interviewed concerning a SG1
A
97he newly constructed portion, as depicted in Source's
drawing number 1, was accessible by a ramp (not further
identified). Inside the area was a moveable curved angular
plate reflector device. In the center of this device was a
black sensor box (not further identified) . Surrounding this
device was a "cold wall or screen type wall" with vertical
lines both inside and outside the wall. Fastened around the
inside of the "cold wall" were two rows of "some kind of
reflector or blocking grid type things" (not further
identified). Source further described this "cold wall" as a
"one-way shield" for "micron type waves;" "radar" and/or
"microwave" (not further identified) . The exterior wall of
the area was a screen grid, "very evenly broken up into
separate little blocks" (not further identified) . The area
had a false floor that was completely shielded and under the
floor there' were many wiresp "a spaghetti full of wires" (not
further identified). There was a metal gauze, "a gauze type
element" in the ceiling of the newly constructed area.
Source also described an "analysis portion" connected with
the newly constructed area but located somewhere on the upper
floor(s) of the main building (riot further identified) . This
analysis area was a room in which there were three automated
consoles (see drawing 2), each of which had three cabinets.
Two of these cabinets had video display screens and the other
cabinet contained lights, switches, and "black boxes" (not
further identified). The video screen in the center cabinet
WARNING NOTICE: SENSITIVE
INTELLIGENCE SOURCES AND
METHODS INVOLVED
NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN
NATIONALS
CLASSIFIED BY: CDR, INSCOM
DECL: OADR
(continued)
3. TVPED NAME AND ORGANIZATION OF SPECIAL AGENT
6. SIGNATURE OF SPECIAL AGENT
FORM *IOVL&fjL *U.S@ Gov rnment Printing Office: 1982-241-049/4226
t APO 523 11"'WROINAW260S/ 6-00788RO01 600340001-8
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Approved For Rfftse 2oS[CRET-RDP96-00788Rffft,600340001-8
WREO-ORT---e-
For use of this form, see FM 30-17(C); AR 381-20; the proponent agency Is the office of the Aoxistant Chief of Staff for Infelligmea.
1. eqAtif Of SUBJECT OR TITLE Of 914CIDENT 2@ DATE SUDMOTTEU
SG1A 3, CONTROL SYMBOL ON FILE NUMBER
CL-1024/8303/01
appeared "black or dark" and displayed white lines in
different configurations (not further identified) and numbers
that appeared to move around the screen (not further
identified). The video screen in the cabinet on the left was
-light gray and had a horizontal display of perhaps fifteen
different frequency ranges, all "random" and "spurious" (not
further identified). Source stated that the use of two video
screens represented two "distinctly separate missions."
Source was unsure what these two missions were but believed
that one might be "for information" and the other "for
identification."
When questioned concerning the operational status of the
newly constructed area, Source stated, "It's fully capable,
but not being used." The rooftop portion was finished but the
analysis portion was "not all manned." Source reported that
once operational, this activity would be a "never been done
before capability." This new capability would enable "over a
1,000 miles range, a great distance for spurious wave form and
microwave frequencies, radar frequencies. Beyond this
capability there was a 'very compartmented . . . third
mission" which may involve a "tap in on a major network,
specific network control network." Source reported that
this first time ever tapping or touching involved "a comm
network with nuclear subs, or about nuclear subs" (not further
identified).
Source emphasized the technical concept that vertical and
horizontal wave angles (not further identified) were very
important to the function of the "screen shields" in the newly
constructed portion of the roof top structure. These
SG1A "screens" and "fields" were all electrically balanced making
the "wave arrival" critical.
Attached hereto as EXHIBIT I are drawings provided by
ource.
'i. TiiE Ai'@:ND ERG t4iZATION Of SPECIAL AGENT 6, SIGNATURe OF SPECIAL AGENT
FORM *U.S. Gavernment Minting Oftim 1082-341-64410228
O,h 6-00788RO01 600340001-8
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IN"FETIAGENCT'AND SEVA-IRITY
COMMAND
LAHIBIT
COVE'A S1.11"I"T
SG1A
SUBJECT:
FILE NUMBER: 11-1024/8303/01
PREPARING UNIT:
AGENT REPORT BATED:
DESCRIPTION: Drawings
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S"EC" T REGRADED UNCLASSIFIED
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