Approved For Release 2000/08/fl-z -t644t-R *&"f88ROO0300420001-3 NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS ORCON INSCOM GRILL FLAME PROGRAM SESSION REPORT CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, DAMI-ISH 051630Z JUL 78 REVIEW ON: Vy 'Vrl- T- Approved For Release 20SUtRA E16-00788RO00300'42*0001-3 Approved For Release 2 =n-7-.I!~~96-00788ROO0300420001-3 OtEG SUMMARY ANALYSIS REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION CCC-99 SG1A 1. (S) This report documents a remote viewing session conducted in compliance with a request for information on a target of interest to USI. SG1A 3. (S) The protocol used for this session is detailed in the document, GRILL FLAME Protocol, AMSAA Applied Remote Viewing Protocol (S), undated. 4. (S) Following is a transcript of the viewer's impressions during the remote viewing session. At TAB A are drawings made by the remote viewer reference his impressions of the target site. At TAB B is target cuing information provided the remote viewer at the time of this session. Approved For Release 26EC7 :RETP96-00788ROO0300420001-3 2. (S) The remote viewer's impressions of the target are provided as raw intelligence data and as such have not been subjected to any intermediate analysis, evaluation or collation. Interpretation and use of the informa- tion provided is the responsibility of the requestor. doom Approved For Release 200 r*rM0M6-00788R000300420001-3 TRANSCRIPT TIME. #66: REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION CCC-99 This will be a remote viewing session for 1330 hours, 7 May 1960. PAUSE Relax and concentrate now. Relax and focus your attention, focus your attention on the Afghanistan area. PAUSE I have shown you some pictures of Hind D helicopter aircraft. PAUSE SG1A PAUSE Now,, +06 #11 #66: Northeast from capital city ...... not on, but near or near not near ..... Tell me the raw data that makes you say these things. Tell me the raw data. PAUSE +09 #11: I'm seeing entire country and area from very high. My reference point is capital city; object is northeast towards and close to but significanL distance from border with Pakistan. I have close up of grayish, brown, very rugged, mountaineous;object in small canyon or valley. #66: As you look at this object, describe your relative position of observation. #11: Which point in time? #66: Now. As you had a closeup. #11: 1 am near... I am ... ummm ... southwest, south of canyon. Object is... is semi-upside down on the right... on its right side on ... near bottom, but on facing slope. Approved For Release 2000108SEG-RE-To788ROO0300420001-3 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 #=LJL~ 8ROO0300420001-3 #66: Center yourself over the object. Center yourself over the object at 500 feet. Look down at the object and describe the scene to me. PAUSE +13 #11: 1, 1 see V shaped canyon ................ I keep getting, for some reason, 45 degrees from center location off point of reference. A V shaped canyon, high mountains and hills to the north, northeast. The backwall or facing facing southwest, is not as high. #66: Ok. Now listen ........... #11; 1, 1, for some reason I'm getting two separate impressions of this object. One impression is it's lying on its right side, fairly intact, but I also get same impression overlaying it, or flashing in and out as-it were, of same object lying upside down its right side, that is, very much burnt up and destroyed. It doesn't make sense. One image intact; other image is not intact. #66: That's fine. That's fine. I can understand that. Now listen very carefully to the following instructions. PAUSE Move from your present location of 500 feet over the object to 5000 feet over the object. As you move up to 5000 feet, pay attention to the target area and report significant information. Do so now. #11: Desolate. No valuable information at 5000. 5000 is too low. #66: All right. Now, at this time as you hold your perceptions over the target area, as you hold your perceptions over the target area, open yourself to all information available. to you concerning the location of this object. #11: 1 all ready have that. #66: Report that. #11: Too much for words. #66: Will you be able to draw it;~for me? #11: Yes. #66: All right. Is there an altitude perspective that you would like to take to describe this for me? 2 r7 rll* rol r~lnr_ Approved For Release 2000/C-~W_W.AmzC.:Ar,~quo-juiudKO00300420001-3 Approved For Release 2000/0*Eeffs- 4. = 8R000300420001-3 #11: 1 have very ... uh ... impressioned-already .... I have point of reference and I have degree of angle from true north. #66: Do you have a distance estimate? #11: From point of reference at approximately 45 degree angle.... 2/3 to 3/4 of distance from point reference to border of Pakistan or whatever border is in that direction. #66: All right. Fine. At this time I have no further information which I require. Is there anything thbt.-. you can relate at this point on your own without being questioned as to how we can locate this target. Spend a few minutes now, just thinking about that. See what information is made available to you. #11: Let me relax. #66: Fine. We have plenty of time. #11:~ And merely open my channels. +19 #66: Fine. I will wait. PAUSE #11: 1 have... I have a comment that may be pure overlay ........ I...... get an impression that this object was observed to go down ..... I have a feeling it was reported by an observer to go down intact, but that it is really nothing more than burnt up wreckage. Thatis... that may be an overlay ....... merely me to explain two different expressions. #66: Fine. I understand. Is there anything else you'd like to add before you draw? #11: This object was report......observed and reported by guerilla forces operating in area I've described. PAUSE #66: Anything else you'd like to add? #11: Nothing more. #66: All right. Prepare to draw then. PAUSE NOW- Approved For Release AIF/4017~: CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0300420001-3 Approved For Release 2000/08/07.41 722ROO0300420001-3 #11: Drawing number l.....uh... very early on I decided I needed a point of referenceg and whatever the capital city, or whatever it is was my point of reference. That's the X with a circle in it, and the impressions that I was getting, and I'm making a dotted line, I arbitrarily made up a true north arrow ..... so I had some type of reference point rather than trying to figure everything out, I just made my own reference point and went from there. So I will say that the dotted line on top represents MY interpretation of north, ok. Now I had, off in the distance up here, hills ...rugged mountains with valleys and hills in between,.or whatever, very rugged area ...... and ... uh....and it's odd.... I had a feeling that these mountains kind of swept from left to right, and then I had another angle of mountains over in this .... of this sector, and this ......... line that I'm drawing now with a long dash and a short dash represented international border, and I perceived it as Pakistan. This will be East and my reference point was almost a 45 degree angle ... uh...I don't know what other kind of lines I can use. First of all I.felt that the area of ... the object that I was looking for was where the multese (phonetic) cross is ... or the German Iron cross ... whatever ..... and the hill nearest to my reference, the city, was much lower than the background, which I would consider mountains, but this would be like a hill, or whatever. There was kind of a closed ... canyon there ........ Anything else you want to know about? #66: Distance. #11: The only way I can relate distance, and I tried without getting too analytical, if I'd of come up with a distance, is it's 2/3ds to 3/4 of this distance at this angle to whatever borders up here. #6.5: When you talked about your point of reference, then, you always were referring to the capital city. #11: Right, right. I made that just an arbitrary point of reference. #66: Can I ask what makes you say that's the capital city? #11: Well, that's .... when I was fumbling around, trying to maintain the status of not being too analytical, I had to choose a point for reference. I knew of no other point except capital city. Rather than coming out of my ultra state and thinking about, gee what can I use for point of reference ..... the Gulf of Mexico, whatever, I just arbitrarily decided that without really thinking too much about it. 4 Approved For Release 2000/UUNPU;I%WWRL-CIO788ROO0300420001-3 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0300420001-3 #66: JA%m I Lo understand then, that you did not image a "city." Quoteg unquote. #11: No, no, But, I used that as a point of reference, and don't ask me how I did it without imagery, because I don't know. #66: Ok, ok. How about, let's proceed now to your, you, next thing you said, I have a close in or a close up of the object. #11: Right. Uh-probably the most advantageous view of that would be an overhead, and I'll try to draw it in a kind of a relief type thing. I had kind of a boat shaped canyon or valley, and over here I had a, a hill, what I would call a hill, and there was a very short dip, and another rise over here. And, over here were some very extremely1rugged, high mountains. I wouldn't call these things peaks herb. I would really have to spend some time ... uh ... in going over things to come up with an accurate .... I'll make another drawing of some sort later, to try to give an idea of what I'm talking about. But, over here are mountains ..... rugged ..... all right. Uh ..... surrounding this boat shaped canyon are ..... I would call them high hills ..... not really mountains, but ..... hills and ridges. In other words, even if you were looking from the area where my arrow is pointing, which is basically the angle from point of reference, on drawing 1, you could not see it until you got up to a vantage point that you could look over these high hills. Uh ...... now, there were some other hills and rugged mountains. If you followed the valley in the angle and directions going, there's some other ~mountains and hills over on this side ... uh ... along the border on drawing 1. Uh ... the area is pretty much wide opened, scrub brush is all ... .... my vantage point ... uh... I'll make an X with a circle ... and I was looking down into this canyon or valley-the object that I perceived is where the X was. Now, this object was observed by somebody from the direction, on a hill where the dotted line is. Some unknown observer. Andq that's how it was observed. #66: Ok. At this time, I think it would be a good time to go into your perception of what it looked like on the ground. What did the object look like as it layed on the ground there from this vantage point. I don't think it's necessary to spend time drawing the object. You tell us a little about what it looked like. 5 If% Q Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0300420001-3 Approved For Release 2000/08/07: CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0300420001-3 #11: Well ..... from one impression is an object lying there fairly intact, and in the background is the corner of the canyon, and then off to the right of the rugged mountains .... WOW now, it's a fairly narrow canyon ..... it looks more spacious here, and there are scrub..uh ... bushes and.stuff around, but, from that type of....at that particular point when I 'was seeing an object intact it's nothing that would conceal the object. #66: Are you referring to the bushes and ....... #11: Right. The bushes would not conceal the object. #66: Ok. #11: Uh ..... it was out in the openv and the other perspective I had was identical to it except the object was not intact. There was just mostly just a black spot there. #66: Nowq do you recognize the object as being similar to the aircraft in the picture that I've showed you? #11: Well, I used that photograph as-a focal pointo but there could be some reasonable doubt as to whether it was actually SG1A #66: #11: Wellq I don't know. I really didn't spend alot of time analyzing it. I used the...the photo and information given me for targeting purposes. So~ I automatically during the session assume that I was looking at that object. If, in- SG1A deed it was down there. After the session, thinking about it, if, ',.indeed there was not I may have picked up on something else that had gone down. #66: Is there anything else in reviewing your session on how we .might go about locating this object? #11: It's not far ..... and when I say not far I'm not sure what I mean, because I don't know the geography in the country ..... but, it's nearer to the Pakistani border than it is to the interior of the country, if that makes any sense. Q mum, Approved For Release 2000/08/0-Y(VWk~~iZO~88ROO0300420001-3 And because of your military background you would recognize the difference between the two. Approved For Release 2000108/07 : CIA-RDP96-0 788ROO0300420001-3 r~f% M r" "0 #11: Uh .......... as I said, from the north that I've declared in the east ... from a 45 degree angley if you want that way approximately 2/3ds or 3/4 of the way to whatever border that is there, is the general area. You should find, you should find some rugged mountains. And, this more towards the foothills where it went down. Not in the mountain, but SG1A more towards it opens up. #6.5: 1 don't know ..... how, how:f2miliar are you SG1A SG1A #11: Very. In other words I can tell you the so forth. So I am familiar with the equipment. But i did not take time as I was there looking at this object that I saw that the one that was intact, I really did not do alot of analytical work. I just assumed that that was the target I was going after. Now, I did notice the painting was ..... I did notice.... I can tell you that.....was a flat, dull, camouflage type painting like we use on our trucks ... uh... duce and a halfs and five tons and stuff ... it was a ...a light sandy, brown with other spots9 you know, dark, darker brown and greens and stuff, but there was a camaflage pattern on this ...... #6.5: Yeah. But, isn't that a common practice? #11: Yeah. Certainly. And that could have been purely analytical, but, that's what I perceived as I saw this object there. #6.5: How familiar are you with Afghanistan and Pakistan? #11: Off the top of my head ... not really ... uh...now, I've seen, of course, the news reports, and stuff ..... uh .... but, I'm not ..... if I had to sit here and draw a map, I'm not really sure what I'm talking about analytically. So, I'm not .... the one thing that throws me is, I didn't expect to find mountains going in this direction, then all of a sudden coming in this direction. 'cause it seemed to me ... uh .... #6.5: You're saying you got two different mountain ranges? #11: Yeah. Something like that, because my point of reference is in drawing 2, but I had the feeling whoever-observed this thing ...... it was observed by somebody ..... and I've a feeling, it was guerrilla forces or whatever. But, whoever observed it, observed it from a point on these other ... uh .... set of hills or mountains that go, almost, perpendicular to that point. #6.5: What do you mean you've been with guerrilla forces over there? #11: Huh! Approved For Release 2000/08/0~-"C4A~~DPS"Otif8-ROOO3OO420001-3 Approved For Release 20QDV_,.i~,'ff64^"- r9p00788ROO0300420001-3 %.J L. %.; I %, mom - #6.5: That's what you said. You been with guerrilla forces over there. I believe that's what you said. #11: That's probably where I was ... no ... but, my point of observation, for some reason, I felt it was observed by some type of mountain people or whatever. #6.5: I'm glad we got that on tape. I could've sworn that's what I heard him say ... and I swiveled here ..... For the record, did you show him all five of these? #66: Yes, and I will include them in the report. #6.5: Okl. I have nothing else. #11: You got a map. I can probably show you where it is on a .map. Or, you can probably figure it out from that end ..... #6.5: Yeah. I just seDured a map. You want to take a look at it we can let you d3 that. For the record, he hasn't seen this map, so ...... don't drop this mike ..... it will make noise. Ohl God! Let me i3ee. if I've got a reference in this god-dam thing. #11: It's a CIA map. ~I can tell from the back. #6.5: Doesn't even have a name on it. Just map labeled Afghanistan. #11: That could only come from CIA. #6.5: Doesn't even ..... well, anyway .......... #11: OW My God! Look at this mess. #6.5: Well, you're the one that wanted to look at a map. #11: Yeah. That's, two different s my point of ref to be in a flat targeting the w If you drew a 1 213ds, 3/4s.... area here. I d point of refere #6.5: All right. hat's really odd. Now, it could be one of tuations here. Because, I had the feeling rence, which I called the capital, seemed area. Let's go with my initial ... uh ... y I just pointed .... thing here ........ no there, went up 45 degrees to approximately mmmm, I would put it in somewhere in this d not perceive a mountaineous areat from my ce though. 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