Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 SECR INSCOM GRILL FLAME PROGRAM SESSION REPORT CLASSIFIED BY:MSG,DAMI-ISH DATED: 051630ZJUL78 NOT RAEPA LaD.F-=N NATIONALS REVIEW ON: r=7, 7 T 7 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 CIA-RDP96-007 0 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 SUMMARY ANALYSIS REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION D-39 1. (S/NOFORN) This report documents a remote viewing session conducted in compliance with a request for information concerning safes in a room. 2. (S/NOFORN) The remote viewer's impressions of the target are provided as raw intelligence data and as such have not been subjected to any intermediate analysis, evaluation or collation. Interpretation and use of the information provided is the responsibility of the requestor. 3- (SINOFORN) The protocol used for this session is detailed in the document, Grill Flame Protocol, AMSAA Applied Remote viewing Protocol (S), undated. 4- (SINOFORN) Following is a transcript of the viewer's impressions during the remote viewing session. At TAB A are drawings made by the remote viewer reference his impressions of the target site. At TAB B is target cuing infor- mation provided the remote viewer. 5- (S/NOFORN) This session was conducted concurrently with session D-38. NOT R=#91-,?-Vk-r%CffQt NATIONAL Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 TRANSCRIPT REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION D-39 TIME #66: This 'will be a Yemote viewing session for 1100 hours, 10 September 1980. SG1 B #10-5: No. #66: At this time then we'll prepare to do the session. PAUSE #66: Relax and concentrate now. Relax and focus your attention on the room in the photograph I have shown you. Focus your attention on the room in the photograph I have shown you. Move now in present time, move now in present time to the room in the photograph and describe it to me. Now. PAUSE #10-5: I'm getting ... two, uh ... I think two, no, one*** ..... **to.-There's a rat rig...behind the partitiono*oeoootwo, uho*ogray... steel type desks ... they're in the room, for some reason I can ... side by side ... little separate... On the left one I canotosee something coming back toward me, on it's left side like ... a screen or a ... side panelooooooeo*99se +06 Waito****I have a** ..... the place I put two.oo.it's Ia***** across from the clock ... slightly to the right, like" my back is to clock ... the right hand is open...and it-s--hast uh ... it's a cabinet, and it's, uh ... four, three or four drawer, and it's top one is..ogaping open .... extended, slid out ... it's bottom one...is open, but only four . Q r,"o Q 0 r."r Approved For Release 2000MAW--'UrkVtLU-Vb--uO788ROO0400400001-4 any questions concerning your mission? Approved For Release 2000/0;t/47%~-IMA'O.*RMM.MT~'88ROO0400400001-4 %-j L.%j I x 1 #10-5: inches ... or so, like it's been pulled out, but isn't. The one to the left is...right side to side. It appears to be ... with it's drawers closed.... Let me rest. I'll come back up in two minutes. PAUSE #10-5: No, the one on the left is-open... They're both ... black dial ... with a metal lever on the top, and I'can see the (garbled) ... the one on the left the leve'r is...up. I want +13 to say that there is,-a ... no forced entry, that they are both 'opened-~.I.not~,.by force. I see no facial damage or... attempts to figure out forced entry...non-existent:Tq%& directly. The one on the right is ... undergoing a ... I'd say bulk ... reproduction, they.1_,,'re working on the, uh, second drawer down now, the one that has the, uh, black dial on it. There ... I think it's b-a-1k anyway, there's a copying apparatus,which is:outside in the hall to the left and then to the right about 25 or 30 feet down... +15 #66: Describe the ones doing the copying. PAUSE #10-5: There is a, uh ... only a youngish woman dressed in white... brunette, skirt, blouse... There is a middle aged short male in it; ... glasses, almost frail, gray flannel suit, TAW brown flannel suit...the glasses with the speckly frames, +17 has a widow's peak... The woman is to the left of the clock doing ... something, also resembles a file cabinet type*** #66: Describe the condition of,the.rooin at-the-present time. PAUSE +22 #10-5: It's ........ virtually unchanged. The desk by the partition is ... a little disarrayed. The two desks to the end... turned slightly, a little misaligned maybe.oopapers on top ..... #66: 1 have no further questions. It's time now for your comments. Please comment as you see fit at this time. PAUSE #10-5: Must be a third safe which is the one which the woman is working on. It stands to the left of the exit, like frame in a wall. To the left of it is a large gray wall"unit +29 like a wall cabinet... It is open too. It is the one she is working on ... top drawer, but it looks much lighter than the other two. I'd almost say it's a file cabinet. Back of the room behind the two desks something on the wall 2 M F--r Approved For Release 2000/0&'UW.4%WAMWM:MT-TMR000400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/081M ii 1788ROO0400400001-4 V 1A L. 1 #10-5: which is white. I think of world map when I look at that. To the right of two safes there's something on the wall. It's rectangular, above eye level. I think of picture when I look at that. Dark lying rectangle, think like a fr , A appear ... I feel that this place is located in a cent MrAe'lletween two open hallways. For some reason I had a mirror image, I'm getting another rectangle like two rectangles, they place one exit at left of the partition. To the left of that is the safe with the girl, to the left of that is the wall unit. Then there's the position from which the photograph is taken, and that appears to also be a passageway ... only that, that is different. I backed out of it and there's a hall that goes away there and curves backwards to the right at an angle, but to the one to the left of the partition is a straight up and down parallel hallway, and there are ... I don't know what it is, there are platforms in this room that are weird. The safes seem to sit on Platforms, something raised other than what they would raise up above the floor, some other sort of platform area... I think all three are open, but two of the three are presently being worked. #66: Do I understand that one looks more like a file cabinet than a safe? #10-5: Yes. Like the kind with the push-button lock on it... It seems lighter, lessee.dense. #66: All right. #10-5: More flimsy metal. #66: Any further comments before drawing? #10-5: Well, uh, several times I had the feeling that of the two safes side by side the one on the left is shorter than the one on the right by ab t eight inches. That's cer-, there's certainly a ... recur4'"AAblg boy, little boy typeoo*feeling there, but not much, one ise*.one on the right is a little taller. That's all I got. #66: Okay, fine. Let's prepare to draw now. #10-5: Okay. Sketch one ... is set of two things that I t6ok to be Mosler safes, man. No doubt about it. Where I believe they're positioned in the room is across from the clock, that little pedestal or little whatchamacallit that has that clock on it. In other words, they're to the left of the place from vhich the photograph, target photograph, was taken. They' .re nott obviously, they're not in the photograph. Very spontaneously when I looked, I was look- ing, okay, they want to know about safes, you know, let me Approved For Release 200,,-rr-r.;ma---r 788ROO0400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 0, 1" #10.5: ...see if I find any safes. Bam! I saw a safe with the top file drawer open; there was no doubt about it. The top drawer of the safe-there were two of 'em side-by-side. One of 'em was open. Then I started saying, well, you know, gee, that's sort of neat and groovy, I mean I found the- they wanted the answer to that question, and I found it. Here it came..it just smacked me right between the eyes with no thought, left brain cogutative action or anything. And I was sitting there grooving on these safes ... sort of like I got distracted, like who was the guy that was reaching up into the top drawer to, to get this stuff out. He's a little old mousy guy, sort of a professor typeg slightly, slight build and 50 years old, and wearing some sort of a..some sort of a tweed, brown tweed suit. And, I sort of said, wellt you know, okayt this-hell, this could be the guy that usually works herep you know, but, then I got ... no, wait a minute..ihe's taking bunches out. He's not just taking out individual file foldersaeu(Jworking on them. You know, I was sort of concerned that I might have moved in time to a, a so balled normal time, and not some sort of a time of interest for this exercise. But, the unusual activity was that he was taking groups of folders out, and I perceive that he was walking somewherep ..uh..around behind him, and out a door into a long hallway. Okay... Now, this doorg if you're looking at sketch one you would have to turn around, with your back to this safeg and then this door would be to the left on the other side of the room. I have the door to the left of the partition which is shown in the target photograph. Nowt I know that in the target photograph it's some big sort of bookcase that's over there, butt I don't believe that the bookcase is there. I believe that there is a door there, and the door is a little farther downg maybe. But, somewhere on that side of the room to the left of the partition is an egress access exit, egress and exit point. They're walking out into the hallway out that door, down to the left about 25 feet to the right, maybe only 10 feet into a room that has a reproductive capability ... photostatic capabilityt maybe. Inanimate objects do not have reproductive capabilities, okay ....... Now,.I do not believe that that is the door which Ilike... some reason I had two ways to get in and out.of this place; one on either side of a long nar-longishq narrow room, okay. I believe that there is a door sort of there. I'll draw an arrow in the lower right, and I believe that there is a door down there. It's up to you guys to figure out if it's left- right, reversalg and if I knew whether I was coming or going or not. All rightq that's two safes, that's sketch one. Picture Approved For Release 2000/08inIC rAarrm% 8ROO040040 10001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/0-4 L-%CftA r-UMDR000400400001-4 -7 7W L. W I % L. 1 #10-5: on the left, and there are two desks, only one of which I've shown because only one,is really...you know, germane I guess is the word for it. In sketch one. #66: I'd like to ask about these two safes now if I could. #10-5: Okay. #66-, You said that I um- #10-5: They are not burned open, they are opened not surreptitiously. They are opened as though the guys walked in in the classic manner, looked at the guys calendar pad that works in there, and he found the combination circled. Some stupid thing like that. He knew the combination. They were not ,V weren't jimmied open, they weren't burnt pried open, the open, they weren't blown open. They were unlocked in a normal manner. #66: They were unlocked in a normal manner- #'10*5: Yes* #66: But from the scario you've just related to me it was not someone who normally shouldnltAb;t~ the combination. #10-5: 1 didn't say that. I don't really, I didn't really say that. I'm not trying to say what- I do not know whether the people there were supposed to be there or were not supposed to be there. Thatts a qualitative judgement I can't- #66: Okay. #10-5: 1 did have an overlying pallor, okay? this pallor of some sort of surreptitiousness. Now, whether that's overlay from the tasking or not I don't know. But I did feel surreptitiousness about it. But I also felt that the combination was known somehow, and was dialed into the safe and the drawers were opened. #66: Okay. #10-5: Now, how that surreptitiousness applies to knowledge of the combination, I don't know. I really couldn't say. It could be that- it could be that these- this guy- these guys really worked there and know the combination. Okay? #66: Okay. #10-5: And they're there after duty hours and they're not supposed to be there. Or it could be that they don't work there and didn't know the combination, but somehow got it, and Q "a IQ C; Approved For Release 2000W/L7-%2lM;QP -00788R000400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/0-LN LftfRrPj~LM- 88ROO0400400001-4 I%.of ~ W I % L. 1 #10-5: weren't uupposed to have the combination, bA did know it. And the method by which they would've gotton it is not by some neat and technical groovineps, like a camera in- serted in the ceiling over the safe with time synch photo- graphy. It was some stupid thing like some stupid blunder that they just happened to get it. Very easily. If, ifv if that's the alternative, ioeol they come walkin' in, gee it sure would be nice to get into those safes, uh, now's the time, letts look around maybe we can find the combin- ation and goddamnit they didntt find the combinationsv and they tried them out and they worked. That's the type of a thing I'm tryin' to say. #66: All right. Now, um ... just to clarify for ... the person who might be reading this transcript. You have had some exposure to intelligence training and would recognize various methods of opening a safe by force... #10-5: Yeah. Uh, you know, the reason I say that they werentt opened by force is I said, you know, that's weirdl the safe's open, I'm looking for damage. I was looking for some visual thing that might come through, in RV that would tell me if it'd been torched or cut. And there's no visible damage to the front. Okay? Or on the sides that are exposed* I didn't get in the crack, you know, I was sort of just looking. And it was automatically exculsionary 'that &jW forced entry had occur/2~4 it was just- it wasn't a case of that, just automatic, spontan- eous. They didn't get in that way. And I like tried to like, well what do you want to call it, creative imagery, maybe. I tried tosay, oh well, maybe they pounded it open with a sledge1ammer and a wedge. And I saw, and I created this guys- bang! bang! on the, on the dial. No. That doesn't fit. It just went right away. Okay. Maybe they torched it open and I imagined a big- they big cylinders and hydrogen and oxygen cyliViders of a big torch apparatus and everything. No, that just disapeared. It wasn't substantive. 'There was no, no material. truth to those type of thingse So I said, wtll obviously I'm fighting the problem. They obviously got in without using a forced entry metheod. They got in somehow, uh, in a cluasi-routine manner. #66: Okay*** #10-5: And there was absolutely no damage is the point I want to make. Then- and I was saying here's another spontaneous thing abouth the safes. As I was looking at the one of the right and the first minute I found the safe the top drawer was open. You know, I didn't look at safes and then manufacture somebody come over and open the drawer. It was that standing free that way and there was nobody around it. #66: Okay. C% ro~ t`*~Q Approved For Release 200WMWUL.;%AWF% 0788R000400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/q;:rQKf~~0-- QP788ROO0400400001-4 L.%J I N L. I #10-5: The first time I saw it. And I looked at the left hand safe, which I think is a little bit shorterl and I said- so I just spontaneously zoomed in on this black dial with the butterfly in it and everything, and the throw lever was obviously in a upward position and I just spontaneously knew that that one was open too. But that they just weren't screwing around with it right now and they had all the drawers closed.** And I couldn't find a third safe. You know, there was not three in a row, there was no little field safe or some- thing hidden or stuck in the floor or anything like that. So I'm sort of, all throughtout the session I was conju~a- ting aboutg well4hq said there was three safes in herev I don't know where the hell the third safe is I,.paptt :see it, it's not obvious. And I don't want to make it there. And I happened to notice that this girl wearing white was on the other side of the room to the left of this door that I say is over there, screwing around in the top, and just, that was spontaneous too. She's standing at a single big box, cabinet box, screwing around in a file drawer, a top file drawer again I saidt well maybe that's what they're talkin' about. So I went over there and I said but this isn't a safe, it doesn't look like the other two. That's when I decided that it really was like a file cabinet with a paracentric lock, that was being called a safe. #66: Oka7l do you- #10-5: But it really wasn't a safe as I know it. #66: Are you of the opinion then that I told you there was three safes in there? #10 - 5: 'Yerdi. 366: Okay. #10-5: Yeah, I am. We'll have to go back and listen to the tape. #66: Okay. #10-5: 1 don't know if you said that or not now that you asked the question. But there's, you know, where was this other thing over there and I said well, that's obviously what's being called a safe in this case, is this. And it's got the little paracentric lock on it, it's all U.S. type equipment. Okay... All right. I'll go to sketch two. I dontt know if you want to pause or not 'cause this is gonna be a whole end view of the' room. We've got a whole half thing here anywa:.~,*****99 .Q r"o = r---r Approved For Release 2000/beT&~-VA-lRZ2M-=88ROO0400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/C7 fCUPqM4T_1 "1788ROO0400400001-4 --z0 L~. pr REEK #66: We've answered, you knowq pretty much the essential ques- tions. Do you feel there's something else that you want to express here in the- #10-5: Well, I think that there's a rat rig in there. #66: Okay. #10-5: Okay. I believe that the rat rig terminal is behind the partition that's visible in the targeting photograph. Okay. For val J dation purposes it might be worthwhile. CIV011 Uhl I would like to do a overview of the floor where I believe this activity to occur. I believe it's in a multi- floored 11L11 shaped building that's essentially white, or it comes through white because I got outside and looked at it. That might be useful for validation purposes. Uhl the, I call it a rat rig, I think it was a rat rig, and as a matter of fact, we talk about audio input, I heard the rat rig bell go bing! the minute I saw it. I looked, and I said, gee that looks like a, some sort of a thing on a desk, and then all of a sudden I, it was just automatic it was a teletype keyboard and I heard, you know, the little warning bell go bing! when it- you know, when it operates it works that way you know. Um... #66: Could you draw, rather than in a three dimensional perspec- tive, can you give me a two dimensional perspective of the situation. #10-5: Yeah? that's a good idea... That's a good idea. Okay... And that'll go right hand and glove with the floor plans anyway. PAUSE #10-5: It's not a file cabinet, it's a wall ... wall unit, double- with double,Vall fife cabinetv I'll call it, but itts not a file cabinet, it's a, like what we've got. Barracks cabinet. Barracks locker. I'll call it a. wall locker. This is a four drawer ... cabinet with ... when I say para- centric mode I mean something, some cheap crap type ]Ack like that, I don't necessarily mean a piracentric. I thought it was a paracentric, but it's ... but I, I mean it's some cheap old minimum security type of four drawer file cabinet. Woman in white ... going through top.... oleo of 01,A)0 Duplicating.machine is down the hall 25 feet.eoeoeOkay, and sort of like right here*eeeotwo safes. Mosler type top. This is the man. The man is accessing the safe from there, and is moving out smartly across and down the hall. And , uh , I dont t know what I s down here. The s e are the desks .... picture hangs on the wall there. Map - =Qx-~ n r Approved For Release 2000/dtk~_ ~ff_00788RO00400400001-4 i ~ Approved For Release 2000/08/0 .0-00 r8R000400400001-4 #10-5: hangs there. Some sort of a platform there. This is where the clock is. And this is the desk ..... And this exit area, how did it go? It went out straight, made a 90 degree curve to my right, that's as I was going back- wards. And I h~d-the feeling that when you came in this other door this room was the last place you could go in, and in fact you had to walk through the room to get out into the hall, okay? What I mean is, uh ... just like this, if you were walking from the lower left of sketch two up this hall you were going to this room. And you either had to go, there was no way you could turn off in the near pro.ximity. There were no other room'doors around that. It was like I was on the inside of some sort of a maze of rooms. And I actually would have to go through this room to get out into the hallway in order to go somewhere else. And this is where the photo was taken from, was that... Call that target photo. And the other end of the room is essentially blank because I worked either here, and then when I ended up getting my back to safes then I was trying to put everything into perspective. #66: Okay*e**,**e*. #10-5: Okay, so that's like an overhead layout. Oh, okay. And this desk here, when you asked me if there was any- to describe the room which did give me a little problem, 'cause I didn't know whether it sEould be described as changes from the target photograph era, whenever that was, or if it was.like charges since I had been there type situation. The only change is virtual, virtually no change. I didn't see any massive destruction or reorgan- ization or looting or pillaging or anything like that. The only thing that was like the left hand desk was a little canted like it'd been shoved a little bit out of the way to allow more, more freedom of access between these two desks down here. And I've shown'it in sketch two as being cante,&,thuslyj but I had the feeling that they were...right side by side when I started the session. And that the only thing I saw that looked like disarray was the feeling of- that's disarray not Desireel was, uh, papers somewhat strewn on top of the desks, like almost as though people were working there, you know, not stacks of pApers and envelopes but just like four or five.sheets sort of helter skelter on top,of the desk each. #66: Okay.... #10-5: Okay. The only other thing that I could do would be the the building I felt was, uh ... I felt that I was in maybe a three or four story relatively modern building which appeared a light or white, didntt appear dark or baroque r 1M~;9 Approved For Release 2000/6&~-W, -00788R000400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 rjld=W=J7M=V000400400001-4 #10-5: which is what I would, you know, ornate in any way. It's modern, um, plain office building. I had the feeling that I wa:S in some sort of interior partiof the complex. I was not in a room that had anything to do with the window that I could look out of. And that the building, okay, it was white and that it was, uh...sort of 11L11 shaped, but not pronouncedly so... Thr ee is it. And there, where I was was about on a third or fourth floor somewhere in the thick- interior thick part of the IVI where the 11X`1 is. And that I was on about a third or fourth floor of ee or four story building. I didn't even try to figure out where I was, I just left it at thato.o9*999eae9o And these people where not dressed shabbily in any way. They were not dressed in manual labor clothes. They were dresged in nice business costumes. The old guy with the- at the safest 55 or so, he's about 51611, he has a widow's peak, dark hair, wears glasses that have speckles on the frames like those semi-clear plastic, sort of a narrow face, was wearing like a brown tweed suit, tie the whole works, right? Business office tLes and the woman was about 25 or 26, had brownish, hair which was shoulder length and was wearing a nice white, um, blouse, open at the, open at the waisty you know, on top of her skirt type thing with sort of like billowing, not real puffy exorbitant sleeves, but sort of billowing sleeves with cuffs on lem down around her wrists and had a wh;+e-- skirt. You know, a nice pleated typewh'*C skirt that you would expect some secretary to find, or something like that. Or to wear, rather. #66: You did state at one time that you thought it was peculiar that they were duplicating these documents in bulk? #10-5: Yeah. The reason is because the atmosphere of these peo- ple. These people- you know, all throughout the session I didn't know who the hell these people were. They could've been people that worked there for all I know. You know, despiteovoKading surreptitiousness or whatever. If they were people that worked there then obviously they would know what it is they wanted if they were stealing documents and reproducing them for some nefarious reasons, so I would have expected them to be a little more selectic- selective, right? But no, they were- they weren't just pulling individual files and taking them away. I didn't actually see them doing any Xerox, now. I knew that they were going to have them Xeroxed and that the place was 25 feet down the hall, but I didn't out there and visit it7 I just sort of went- okay, it's around the corner and over there and I, you know, it was just one of these quick thLngs. Uh, so them you would think then that they-were outsiders Q r. a A~% r==M Approved For Release 2000/0&OL.-dtA-kbPMMI00788ROO0400400001-4 Approved For Release 20001,nRS17 MID= 788ROO0400400001-4 A-f I N L. 1 #10-5: and then you would say, well outsiders probably wouldn't be dressed like t b t only outsiders would have to Xerox everytAW,- ReRave to duplicate everything, because they really wouldn't have the time and the know- ledge to go in and find precisely what it was they wanted copies of and everything, Okay? So that was sort of the quandry I was in, so I said to hell with it, you know, that's what they're doin', they're taking out sections of the file drawer, they're not taking out individual thingsq and let somebody else worry about who it is thatts doing it, and where they're coming from. #66: Okay. Is there ax7thing else you want to add? #10-5: No. Is there anything more that I talked about that I've forgotten? #66: Not that I recall ........ _j C, WWX~ V-P #10-5: Okay. I'll change this,VI'll add this. I have on sketch one desk shifted a little out of line. No-lu-iced ... only when asked, re: change. A There you have it. #66: Okay. Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 H-- TAB .1 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 For 01-4 4K Approved For Release 2000/08/07 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/0A *YAq do0 110 CIA-RDP96- 788RO74*400061-4 11k Sts ~e 4t =d woo Apprdqedl~or Release 2000/08/07 J5 cuo CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 00, ;0 Aro~o ~,%P Now Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 row, CP C>b 4r Approved For Release 2000/08/07 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 I TAB -i Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 TARGET CUING INFORMATION REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION D-39 1. (SINOFORN) Prior to the session the viewer was briefed on the aspects of his mission. This briefing is included as part of the transcript in this report. 2. (S/NOFORN) During the session the viewer was asked to focus on critical aspects Of his descriptions. NOT ffl=A -WIONALS NWO WN 1% LWO I Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 SG1 B Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0400400001-4