To:    File
                         Subject:   SI and H Experimentation, 23 October 1951.
                              On Tiiea@ay, 23 Octob,-,r 1951  s                 -e          t3 welle           e@-,
                      anra.-in niiilding 13, Room 20, with                                   an
                    ARNIMMfts         sub2jects.
                              It   ias   decided   that   some   experimentation   should    a@ain    be    car-
                         ried   out   along   the   lines   of   obtaining    information    from    individuals
                         who were under full SI influence.   Accordingly, 411 present'discussed
                         the matter thoroughly and it was agreed that one of the best possible
                                  i_t_c               2         y  woiild  be   an   attempt   to   obtain   from
                                      _ou,
                                          ld b
                                              id              -ne   combination   of   the   safes   that    had
                         15ie2  entrust@@@   to   e=r  sa ekee           -To beg n                         the
                         writer very emphatically briefe                         a         2                hat
                                                                                         "'6'6m ination    to
                         under no circumstances would         the          ge    h  3@liFe  3m
                         anyone  asking   for   it   regardless   of   how the   approach was ma                e-
                                     h   subjects   were   induced    into a deep SI state c
                      2               en tried by every direct approach that he coul
                                 from   the   subject3   the   combinations   of   the    sal
                                                                                                           each
                         effort he was totally unsuccessful.   In addition                                   at-
                         tempted to secure this information2 from the subje                              results
                         were also uneuccessful.
                         COIOIENT,.
                               In  this   connectioamm.Cgr,-   atter   of   record,   it   should    be    noted
                         that  both              nd-             btempted     directly     toobtainthe      safe
                                              @2""the  irect command and a numbear of
                         itumbers  uKqzlwg,.Ib@bt"-
                                                 es.  Since these were unsuccessful,                           nd
                                       appr6ach
                                    ad the writer agree that the next efforts along                            ines
                                   made   indirectly   Do2ssibly   using   a   method   of    creating    hallit-
                         cinations or by a concealed telephone approach or some other method
                         of, a more subtle type#
                                 The concluding part                                            d    of    obtai
                                                              e"lvraiw-l       w or                            ning
                                             2                                      -A"9 L 'St Slt i @                :  '; -
                         a total catalepsy in botl                                              im   These   ex-
                                                                                an
                         periments were entirely su@cessful and a             total cat-aleps3ft-was reached
                         to such an extent 2each girl         was   capable   of    'being    expended    between two
                         chairs in a test method.          It should be noted in conne's
                         @above  that  a  total   catalepsy   had   also   been   reached   b
                         in another:experiment conducted several days previous
                               Since the first experiment of the evening had Consumed a                     con-
                    0     Bid6rable       amount of time  no
                                                               further   tests   were    made during       "this
                         session
                                                                                                        MEN