I Approved For Release 200CDIE-CRFI-TO788ROO1900560001-1 IAGPA-F-SD MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD 05 July 1984 SUBJECT: CENTER LANE Interview Summary - HU-1071/8404/63 (U) 1. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) On 280940 March 1984, source #63 was interviewed by monitor #66 in an attempt to verify the suspected location of an individual identified as William F. Buckley. The project 8404 sponsor had provided an overhead photograph of the suspected building, a map of the area, and a photograph of Buckley (see Incl 1). 2. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) For this interview source was initially shown the map provided by the sponsor and asked to decribe his perceptions of the area specified. No other identifying data was provided to source at the time of the interview. After the interview, source was shown the overhead photograph and a picture of William F. Buckley. All other intelligence information was withheld for use as feedback and cuing for possible subsequent interviews. 3. (U) A transcr.ipt of the interview was prepared (see Incl 2). 4. (U) A DA Form 341 (Agent Report) was prepared for the sponsor. This report related the salient points of the interview. Attached to the report was an overhead photograph depicting the suspected location of Buckley and an area of interest to source (see Incl 3). Association with the below named individual and Military Intelligence is CONFIDENTIAL. SG1J 3 Incl as OPS/TNG Officer NOTE: Information of immediate operational value was provided to sponsor immediately, or as soon as possible, after the interview. CLASSIFIED BY: CDR) INSCOM OADR COT,Ek -P V TATION&TZ N T;`i TApproved Fq Release 2003/09/09: CIA-RDP9WV&FPQ %'7 SG1C Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 Next 1 Page(s) In Document Exempt Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 -Vill "low or Releas R P96-00788ROO1900560001-1 Approved F SE6A/FT TRANSCRIPT HU-1071/8404/63 #66: This will be a CENTER LANE Interview for 0940 hours 28 March 1984. I've shown you a map and indicated the point on the map about which we need information. I am now telling you that at the point on the map that which has been indicated to you, there is something to describe. #63: All right. I have an AOL, immediately, because of the military Christian cemetery right below that. AOL break is military. AOL break---- Lebanon. made it rising, man made, in these bu*i1'@1:n,g,s*.'--** #66: Okay. #63: Stage 2--large, rising . ...... right there. #66: Um, um. #63: ..... Hard surface, stone ...... AI break,...I shorten the (mumble) (mumble) .......... (mumble) it's open,... (mumble) to an open area,.. .(mumble) is large . ..... Stage 2 --- is cold, Stage 2 --- is dark and gray . ......... Al Break, looming. #66: I'm sorry, I didn't understand. #63: Looming, it's looming up there. #66: Tell you that initially I need stage 3 sketch for orientation. #63: All right. Confusion break---- I keep getting that, I don't know whether it's vertical and it's got an atrium in it or whether it's ground here and it's doming up over like that and there's an atrium down underneath of it. #66: Um, um #63: 1 think it's a Confusion break. ............ Intangible --- is official, ..EI --- is dark. #66: Now, in this stage 3 sketch you've drawn me here at the bottom of page 2, compare that with the map I've shown you and show me north, south, east and west. ^L, Approved For Releas UEORIETP96-00788RO01 900560001 -1 IWO Approved For ReleaseSECo RET96-00788RO01 900560001 -1 #63: North. #66: All right. Now looking at your sketch, and looking at the map, we notice that there's a road to the south of the building and across the street is a cemetary. #63: Right. #66: Okay? To the East of your sketch is a road, I'm sorry, to the ah,...you haven't drawn, if notice on the map, there's a main road. #63: Um, um. #66: Okay, now add it to your sketch, the main road. Now to the immediate West, you did sketch a road, all right? Now, movement exercise. Start a new piece of paper. #63: Okay. All right. #66: Do you have to, from structure standpoint, do you have to write down your thing, I hope you will label that then or something. #63: Um, um. Well, I just write 50 meters to the east or whatever and then I'll start bringing in the stages as they come. #66: Acquire the original site. #63: Okay, let me give you a little more on the original site first. Okay, it's a narrative form, off the road, flat area, ...trees, it's got a road going around, maybe squaring it off, around it and it's got a park like environment around it, like maybe grass or something. #66: Um, um, some sort of landscaping? #63: Yeah. #66: Okay. #63: Okay. Does that seem pretty right? #66: Yeah, that's fine. #63: Okay. Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA--R 0560001-1 SECOM@T Approved For Release 20 0788ROO1900560001-1 S 1 REE.9 0 #66: We will label that the original site. #63: Okay, good. Okay, I have that. #66: Okay, acquire the original site. #63: Got it. #66: Across .... lot me rephrase that, west, across the street, something is describable. #63: ..... Misprint. #66: Acquire the original site. #63: Okay, I have that. #66: West, across the street something is describable. #63: A is rising, man made, B a structure, Stage 2 --- thin, tall. #66: Correct. #63: Park like atmosphere, again. #66: Correct. #63: .......... AOL break .... It's like a short Washington Monument. #66: Okay. I understand you say that you have a general (mumble) in this feeling? #63: Um, um. #66: Okay. Now, for the rest of our discussion here this morning, this is the location of interest, as apposed to the original site. #63: The tall, thinness, okay. #66: The tall, thinness, what would you like me, how would you like me to refer (mumble)? #63: 1 guess we'll just call that the site. #66: Site, site of interest, all righ t. Acquire the site of interest. Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-RP&OL17REROD-ILqnilti6OOol-i f-,% Approved For Release 2003/d8(:-qfA"'--F 0-0"ff88RO01 900560001 -1 L.WRL. #63: Tangibles --- man made, Dimensional --- it's tall, Stage 2 --- it's hard, Dimensional --- it's surrounded, Dimensional ---- it's large, Tangible--it's stone. #66: Or something as apposed to wood? #63: Um, um. #66: Okay. I have sufficient information on that. Movement exercise follows. #63: Okay, movement exercise, all right. #66: Inside, the site of interest, there's something of intelligence interest. #63: Confusion break--- I had a piece of equipment and a person at the same time. The piece of equipment seemed to be sitting on a table top, small and the person seemed to be sitting there. #66: Okay, you've declared your confusion. Need I recue you on, it seems like a lot of words to write down there. #63: No. #66: All right. #63: No. #66: You are now in control of yourself. #63: Well, roughly speaking. #66: You are now in control of the session. #63: Right. Dimensional--is large, tangible ---- is hallway, Dimensional --- is high, tangible --- ceiling, tangible--is steps, dimensional --- is multi level. #66: Draw a line under the cuing I gave you. #63: Um, um. I seem to be moving around in the building, looking for that thing. #66: Keep going. #63: Like I'm on second floor now. #66: Looking for what's of intelligence interest. Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA 4MMIRM60001 -1 SEC A Approved For Release 20 6T0788ROO1900560001-1 OSPEGRE #63: Right. Tangible --- people, echoey sounds, tangibles---person. #66: Break. #63: Break. #66: Stage 4 matrix--person. #63: Stage 2, dimensional--AI--AI--TI--AOL, (mumble) person, stage 2--is gray blond, tangible --- is hair, dimensional ---- is 47 to 50 years. ......... Dimensional ----- is 51 1011, ....dimensional--is aged, tangible---is face, stage 2 --- is wrinkled, tangible---is straight hair, ...EI --- is concerned, kind face, EI--is worried . ......... #66: Bilo break. Let's go ahead and push the Al, EI and I, on person described. #63: Okay. Tan ible --- is male, I'll put that down. ...... AI-Imumble), strange feelings, EI --- is confused, a narrative--it feels like he's where he's supposed to be or where he used to be, but he doesn't want to be there anymore. It's like, you know, I'm right now where I'm supposed to be and this is where I work, but then if I decided I didn't want to work here anymore, I wanted to leave, you wouldn't let me, that sort of thing. #66: He's not comfortable where ever he is and wants to go away, but there's something familiar about it as well. #63: Um, um. #66: Okay. Declare confusion break, and declare that as confusion. #63: Trapped in his home environment is a good way of putting it. #66: All right, very good. Some I type descriptives (mumble). #63: Kind,, intelligent, ....AOL break--head of something. #66: Okay, you declared that as AOLs, is it visual or what kind of AOL is it? Approved For Release 2003/09/09 CIA- TMM60001-1 FS *r". C" R r" I Approved For Release 26 EC C f R EPT 00788ROO1900560001-1 #63: Well, it's verbal, I can look through the AOL. #66: Okay, those an AOL signal --- ? 6 3 Yeah, sort of. It's an AOL in that it's the best way I could describe the feeling that I have and feelings are harder to describe sometimes. #66: Sure. Go on. #63: AOL break ---- I'm writing a novel over here, so take a break for a minute. It's like he's the director of some big laboratory and he comes across some amazing discovery and somebody comes in and says "Okay, we're going to take this major discovery and use it for our purposes" and he doesn't want to and they say, "yes you are" and, they trap him in that situation. #66: Okay. #63: There. #66: So, that's very good. But see if you can summarize, you have the AOL, analytical overlay from many inputs that you have, that this guy's, a guy in charge of something. #63: Um, um #66: And it is trapped in his present circumstances have something to do with the fact that he was in charge of something? Is there anything else there? #63: I'm seeing him white. #66: Is this AOL? #63: No, this is real, white smock like or something. #66: Tangible? #63: Um, um. Intangible --- is the laboratory feeling. #66: Okay, are these visuals? #63: No. #66: Okay. Okay, so that would be dress is described as being some white type garb? Approved For Release 2003/09/09: CIA-VqPf&rEPOL760001-1 Approved For Release 208F.9()IREgToO788ROO1900560001-1 6 3 Um, um. #66: Intangible --- laboratory feeling to that? Okay. Okay, I'd like, break, I'd like to move away from person, and continue to move through the building and see what else comes up. #63: Okay. #66: 1 don't know if it's necessary for you to objectify something to get you away from the person and continue on. Okay. #63: I'll just write building down here. #66: Okay. #63: AOL break---- this is further continuation of my novel, he's got a daughter and she's trapped in it too. #66: This big AOL (mumble) involved a daughter that's trapped? #63: Um, um. #63: AOL signal --- classroom type environment. #66: The building? #63: Um, um. And what that means is that it's not necessarily a classroom, but that's similar environment. #66: All right. .. . .... .. ......... #63: lue an -@la-@,-tangibl-----knobs ....... Stage 2 ---- b c es #66: Say what? 6 3 Knobs. Sketch ................ tangibles ---- austere(sp) environment . .............. #66: Take a break. Okay, I've watched you very carefully, watched your behavior very carefully, walking your objectifier across your matrix and having you f ind nothing and I wanted you to know that it's okay to find nothing. #63: Um, um. Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA- 901P 60001 -1 nmt. 1 7 Approved For Release 20 Sa OF- 4CbRET0788RO01900560001-1 #66: Okay, so at this point, I now wish you to summarize the cuing question. #63: Okay. 6 6 The question is items of intelligence interest in the building. I want you to summarize the cuing question and then I want to take a break to go the the bathroom and then I want to re-address the area again. #63: Okay, inside building, this is a person of interest. Person is 47, 50 years old. That's pretty analytical isn't it? 511 10" height, aged, wrinkled face. #66: Those dimensionals are good and it might be nice to say middle aged, average height. #63: Um, um. Gray-blond hair, hair, h-a-r-e, hair, middle aged. #66: That's just my suggestion, put those in () or something.. #63: Average height. #66: Somewhere in there put male. #63: Male. Okay, let's see. Person is worried, confused, feels trapped in his environment. Person is intelligent. Person is in charge of something which has a laboratory type feeling. #66: Why don't you look back at your data. When you said to me before, I think, and I want to talk about this with you, because I'm wondering if you put things together here, the way you said that. He's in charge of something and this something has led him to be trapped by his own circumstances, I thought that's what you said before. #63: Um, um. #66: The laboratory type feeling, if you'll look at your charts, I think goes as a, part of your AOL senario, and that you find him now to be dressed in white, a white garb of some kind. So now reread that statement and'-see if that's an accurate extract of what you said, because I'm confused. Approved For Release 2003/09/09: CIA-RD4"_P7 560001-1 Approved For Release 26ECRET9_00788R001900560001-1 #63: Yeah,, okay, I got person in charge of something which has a laboratory type feeling and that's not necessarily right, so I'll change that. Person is in charge of something which has caused him to feel trapped in his situation. #66: This is very difficult and I want to make sure you extracted from the way it came out of the session. #63: Um, um. And ah, appears to be dressed in white and has lab feeling. #66: Okay. I think as a tangible, you can say, is dressed in some sort of white. #63: Okay. #66: Would you agree with that? #63: Um, um. #66: A tangible is thing, it is that way. This white thing that he's dressed in has a laboratory (mumble). I think that's what you mean. 6 3 Yeah, he dressed in something white, which has a laboratory feeling. #66: Okay, what else do we know about this person looking down through your (mumble)? #63: Gray-blond hair, 47 to 50 years, 511 1011, aged, wrinkles, straight hair, gray-blond hair, straight, kind face, aged, wrinkled face, kind face. He had strange feelings or I had strange feelings about his feelings, lie concerned, worried, confused. #66: Don't play with your microphone while you talk, you mess up the recording. #63: All right. He's concerned, worried and confused. #66: Fine. #63: Trapped in his own environment, head of something, that's it. We've got that all down. #66: Okay, moving then against the original cuing Approved For Release 2003/09/09 CIA VIS 001-1 SIEC ME760 Approved For Release 2&E(;fR F.PT 00788ROO 1900560001 -1 question which is things is interest in the building, you had a person of interest, now in summary is there anything else of interest? #63: 1 didn't find anything. #66: Okay. #63: When I f irst popped into the building, I had a confusion break of a piece of equipment and a person. And I did have the two together, I had the person, you know, geshtalt wise, the person located right beside the piece of equipment and perhaps this man is discovered or his expertise is that piece of equipment. #66: You associate it in someway, this piece of equipment? #63: Yeah. #66: Okay. #63: But, what I went for building, instead of wandering all through there and I didn't find anything of interest. #66: All right. #63: Nothing came up. #66: Let's take a break here and then I want to go back and ask questions in couple minutes. #63: Okay. #66: We've had a change of heart, we're going to call this an end and then we're going to come back and do an interview a little bit later on and pick up some more information. #66: Having declared an end now, I want to give you some feedback as well as ask you for some verifying information, because the further data that I have to ask you about will not be disclosed here. The first thing I want to show you is the map, the photograph of the area that I have and of course I want to know if you have warm and fuzzy feelings about you went to the right place and so forth and so on. Okay, now on the map the original site, as I point here, the original site would this and across the street would be the site of interest. As you see here's Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-PtOR9ftwO 0001-1 0 r.(;T= Approved For Release arUC:jC;Z1T96-00788R001 900560001 -1 the main street here, okay, we have to put this direction. Here's the main here and between these two buildings runs another street, so I put you on the original site and then I asked you to look across the street t *o this. Now as you look at this picture, do you have the feeling that this was appropriate? Looking across the street would have been this street that runs between them. #63: Um, um. Well, did you see that, that looks like the Washington Monument, it's got trees all round it. May want to call this street. #66: 1 don't know what that is. #63: Just a little bit part of the edge, you can see that is Washington Monument. #66: A towering thing. #63: Um, um #66: 1 think that there are, as you can see the shadows, these are all landscaping trees all around the bottom. 6 3 And there's a park environment right here too. And 1 that Is the open area perhaps that I was describing. All I have to say is, I think that was on the site. #66: Okay. #63: I've gotten to the point now, if you tell me to go somewhere, I believe that's where I am. #66: Um, um. Okay, now I want to ask you the same kind of question. I've got another picture here and this is again, I looking to say, have you, do you get a warm and fuzzy, do you get, "Oh, I feel good about that type" or "No, I don't feel good about that", from another perspective? Here's another picture I want to show you and see if you have a feeling about this picture. #63: Yeah., I do. #66: You do what? #63: 1 do have a good feeling about it. Approved For Release 2003/09/09: CIA-R_DPt0t78P0.Q12QQ560001-1 b -ET Approved For Release 2003/&r. 0-k jj 88ROO1900560001-1 #66: Okay, I'll show you a picture of a person and you have a good feeling about that picture? #63: Um, um and he's got the gray-blond straight hair. He's got kind eyes that wrinkles. If you ask me how old he is, I'd say 47 to 50 years old by looking at him from the picture. #66: So you have a good feeling about the picture? #63: Um, um. #66: Okay. Good, we'll call that an end now. #63: Before you end that, I am certain that I went over here. Now, I'm not saying he's in there when you started talking about the building of interest. I uess somehow I realized this couldn't be the uilding of interest and I went back over to here, g but you can see there's a circular drive or something, down around that and everything, I'm certain that I was there. #66: While I was worrying what circles. Well, as you and I have worked before, sometimes I put you on a site and you look out at the horizon from the site, and so I have to do movement exercises. #63: But if I was there, which I'm certain I am, I know that I could have been there too. #66: Yes, I understand. The morass of understanding of how this thing works, we still aren't too sure about, and that's why having an address would have been much better. The point being is that we were looking for this man and he appears to be in the building of interest. Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA O&CC7rTST560001-1 I? Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 2-8 09 0 SG1 I Aj Slelok A14 &C4- A fVT. Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-RDP96jff88ROO10nQ560001-1 AOL T- Alt JAA@ Approved For Release 2003/09/09 CIA P96-00788RO01 9005@6001 A A04r 514 Approved For Release 2003/09/09 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 T- T- ACL 41" qcVA P-4@ CLAA- CA A- 1> .S-t 4@, 4Z4 C@ Approved For Release 2003/09/09: CIA-RDP96-00788ROMOk5o 00-1 Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 D A-17 T- AmO +L, 4 POAAQA-\ Approved For Release 2003/09/09 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 ApprovPAL12tft@ease 2003/09/09: CIA-RDP96-00788 ROO 1900560001 -1 F-I T- qV@ Approved For Release 2003/09/09 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 Approved For Release 2003/G9M: CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 -A Q7 I I T AT htSL AbL 0 0 aiA, Approved For Release 2003/09/09 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 -7 Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 t^- PKA-1, 0 c ,@4ya fm@ V1, -@4 ti,40L,@Ij LA.- -rOAe" LAA/A. AS -44 &U,60.@ 4rft%,@, UA-ie Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 SECRET_ Approved FoAease 2003/09/09: CIA-RDP96 0078 *1900560001 -1 For use of this form, sea FM 30-17(C), AR 381-20; the 1. NAME Of SUSIECT OR TITLE OF INCIDENT -.;;.-,-y -ift-th-e Office of the Assistant Chief of Staff'for Intelligence. 6ATE SUi4MED PROJECT FRANCIS 4. REPORT OF FINDMS 3. CONTROL SYMOOL OR FILE NUMSER HU-1071/8404/63 On 28 March 1984, Source'IS-63 was interviewed in an attempt to verif y the suspected location of SUBJECT. Source stated substantially as follows: Source was unable to verify the suspected location of SUBJECT. SUBJECT was in an area other than the suspected building. At the conclusion of the interview Source was shown an overhead photograph of the suspected location. source indicated SUBJECT was most likely located in and/or around a tower-like structure shown in the upper right of the overhead photograph (see EXHIBIT I). I Source provided no further amplifying information on the location of SUBJECT during this interview. Attached hereto as EXHIBIT I is an overhead photograph depicting the suspected location of SUBJECT and an area of interest to Source. WARNING NOTICE:, SENSITIVE INTELLIGENCE SOURCES AND METHODS INVOLVED NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS 5. TYPED NAME AND ORGANIZATION CLASSIFIED BY: CDR, INSCOM DECL: OADR 6. SIGNATURE OF SPECIAL AGENT FORM a% *U.S. Government Printing Officei 11412-341-649.110220 I APR 52 REPLAM WD AGO FORM 341, 1 J 7 IC ,& 4 :h.= it MAY 61 USED, ii1iroved For Release 20 q0 InSP=0788RO01 900560001 -1 -7-- AIC- k5OE Approved For Release 999@Clg-F:16-00788RO01 900560001 -1 US ARMY INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY COMMAND EXHIBIT COVER SHEET SUBJECT: PR'JHCT FRANCIS FILE NUMBER: HU-1071/8404/63 SECRET KGRADED UNRASSIFIED Approved For Release 2003/09/09ERIffBff96-00788ROO1900560001-1 WH@t,4 SEPARATED FROM 1A Label 1 CIASSITIED INCLOSURES (1 Ann 7R) SG1C Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1 Approved For Release 2003/09/09 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900560001-1