Approved For Release 2000/08/07 e-EJ R=ULBBRP00600070001-9 INSCOM GRILL FLAME PROGRAM SESSION REPORT CLASSIFIED BY:MSG~DAMI-ISH DATED: 051630ZJUL78 NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS REVIEW ON:-,~ ,2" f 'D Approved For Release 2000/08/07 :"FAii*MbIO67b~RO00600070WIE~PTT,,L FLAME ,~e __)2 Approved For Release 2000/0:9;:C-Itt~Rm=,WR000600070001-9 in M., I NOW, SUMMARY ANALYSIS REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION DC-88 SG1B 1. (S/NOFORN) This report documents a remote viewinq session conducted in SG1B com liance with a request for information concerning 2. (S/NOFORN) The remote viewer's impressions of the target are provided as raw intelligence dataf.and as such, have not been subjected to any intermediate analysis, evaluation or collation. Interpretation and use of the information provided is the responsibility of the requestor. 3. (S/NOFORN) The protocol used for this session is detailed-in.the document Grill Flame Protocol, AMSAA Applied Remote Viewing Protocol (S),.undated. 4. (S/NOFORN) 'Following is a transcript of the viewer's impressions during the remote viewing session. At TAB A are drawings made-by the remote viewer reference his impressions of the target site. At TAB B is target cuing information provided the remote viewer. NOT RELF~AAS~PLEJ FOREIGN NATIONALS Approved For Release 2000/08/07 P6fA-RDP9t-t&76i~R000600070001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0600070001-9 TRANSCRIPT REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION DC-BB TIME #66: This will be a remote viewing session for 1400 hours, 20 February 1981. SG1 B SG1 B We do not have a picture of him at the present time, but I do have photographs of the offices where he is known to visit. At this time I'd like to show you, uh, one of the SG1B offices that he spends most of his time at. This is in a building in ~ ~ . And you'll notice down here in the lower left there's a man standing there. I have been informed that this is the entranceway, where the man is standing, a control point or stopping point where you have to go to get into the building. And there's a doorway there for that man to go in. That's the way into the building there. And this is where works, in this building. SG1 B #31: Okay. SG1 B #66: Now, he has also an office or also is known to work in~ SG1 B headquarters, and I'm now showing you.,a picture of %head- quarters. Now I'm going to point to an area in t SG1 B headquarters where his office is suspected to be located. Right here in this middle wing, down this way in the middle wing, an the fourth or fifth floor, right down in there. #31: Okay. #66: Okay. That's where his suspected location of the office is there. Now he sometimes will go, uh, to this office later in the day to maybe turn in some reports or catch up on some- thing, but most of his work, as I understand it, is done Approved For Release 200-1 00 "It 70001-9 SPIPIVEY 131IR0006000 This will be a pre-session briefing to the remote viewer. Approved For Release 2000/08/07 - CMWMWft-M9ffl!Mfi00070001-9 SG1 B #66: S f-%4m 't'dl B SG1 B #31: Okay. SG1 B SG1 B #66: Now.as to time, it is a reaching 9:00.at night in today. Today's date in as we talk right now it's approaching 94.00 at night in We, however, are interested in the time window of 5 in the evening to 7 in the evening today. So we'll be looking at a time window some 4 to 5 hours back in time from right now to the time period 5 to 7 p.m. #31: Okay. #66: Okay? #31: Today. #66: Today. #31: Okay... SG1 B #66: The purpose of this particular mission, this will be the first in a series of attempts with SG1 B an attempt to build rapport with the man. So the primary stress of the session will be to develop and build rapport and a direct relationship with this gentleman, as opposed to physical descriptions of the area where he works, and so forth and so on, which of course will be helpful but it's not the overall purpose. The purpose is to build rapport and communications with the individual him- self. #31: Okay. #66: Okay? Do you have any other questions before you prepare yourself? SG1 B #31: Nope. #66: Okay, you have 25 minutes then to prepare yourself. SG1 B Focus.your attention now focus our attention on w ~no "ocus our attenMoi S(31B 'Move back in time ,c some 4 hours and describe location to me. ribe PAUSE SG1 B Approved For Release 2000/08/07 00600070001-9 over at this other building that I've shown you. But that is the = headquarterst so you might find him at either location. SG1 B Approved For Release 2000/08/07 - fft VF'-I^G ME IRDnrnr-nn-070001-9 1 % 1~ %J I X L. 1 #31: I'm seeing a, uh ......... (mumble) buildings .... I see him at ... a place with fences with buildings, high fences ... on a corner.... Another .......... snow...dirty street-side %%Mpoorl snow pile, slushy .... Someplace down past the corner is where you come in...through the fence, you go through the fence to the building, like ..... #66: Focus on and tell me about him. SG1 B PAUSE +05 #31: Up above the ground and ............. Getting the feeling I'm above the ground, like.some sort of a apartment complex, not very highq fifth.floor. The large window looks out...two large windows, maybe some kind of a balcony ... It's either very private or some sort of controlled access.. Get the feeling of being special, special to get here... #66: Tell me about the General's more immediate surroundings. #31: He, uh ... see him, uh...I'm seeing a figure, attracted to a desk like situation... #66: Go on. #31: Appears to be at the desk... #66: And from- #31: I'm looking over hisshoulder, I'm behind him. #66: All right. #31: I'm in the wall behind him in the wall. Back sits to a wall. He's sitting... I'm on him now, he's like he's .... leaning over the table, it's like he's hunkered over the desk. He's reading something ... that's it, reading. And like an old man who's like.a engraver, reminds me of an engraver, like he has to look very closely at things. And his posture is like that. But he's reading. #66: Okay. As he is sitting at his desk occupied there reading, he is occupied, therefore his mind is free to talk to you. +11 Ask him to describe his job to you. Ask SG1 B to describe his job to you. PAUSE #31: Now I'm seeing a...something to do with ... financial plans. At one time... Another time, uh, something which..,looked the corner of a-very Gothic like structure, gargoyles, and at another time... I ask some more... Approved For Release 2000/08/gin-M MWAWWWW0070001-9 %.W "W I '% L. I Approved For Release 2000/08/IM: J=M==000600070001-9 IZ; L.%J VN L. I PAUSE +19 #31: I'm seeing ..... uh, something to do with, uh, security and fences and death strips and border security and then I said his ..... he said his job was concerned with the people. #66: Okay. #31: But I don't think he's in with the people, I think he is ... much, much too far above that to be concerned about real people. One to one he's, uh, way above that now. And then I'd had a scene of like-poles,,- like a ... flag poles, which are meant.to mean that ... he was up at the.high levels now, and not out in the death strips anymore... #66: All right. What- describe for me now what aspects of his job, what aspects of his job does he enjoy most. PAUSE +24 #31: Well ... training... Got something to do with a big black car... And he enjoys being where he is, in it's entirety. And the only thing I can think of is the ... training is his, uh, I get the idea of training young people, something about much younger people like youthful people and some ... some- thing, I don't know ........ #66: Do you still perceive him sitting at this desk? #31: For a while he was up and looking out the window. Now I have him back at his desk again. #66: All right. What time is it as he looks out the window? #31: The sun's on the horizon, light's shining in, it's like he's looking over the city at dusk, it's like it's later after- noon or something. #66: All right... Move around to the front of the desk now, move away, back away from the desk, about 5 feet from the desk. Describe the area behind him. #31: It is a flat wall and ... behind him, and then to the right is a opening like a walkway. And I'm in like a suite of rooms... something. By his left elbow is a doorway that you can walk past his desk...or...table.... SG1 B #66: Okay... Now turn to him again. You have had some time to come to.know I'd like to pro- SG1 B vid ou with a little more information now. His nickname SG1 B is ia His nickname is~ You may now address him by this name, as you know him. And as you once again turn SG1B to and identify with .... describe his personality to me. SG1 B Approved For Release 2000/08'f"7Q, 600070001-9 Approved For Release 200010810n-. rWaPQE7&00600070001-9 PAUSE #31: He seems to me a very dottering ... very, very dottering and old. Every time I ask him ... he comes across very weakly +34 as ... very, very tired....very.retiring ... excessively old... like he's, uh, now put in a out of the way job and he's served well but now he's getting read' to.be retired. I Ps...every time I don't know, every time I look at him h see him walk.he walks like an old man. His, uh, one state- ment was "you'll never succeed" ... Let me work some more. I read these plans which are ... yes, it is a good plan. It's +37 a ... some sort of a survival plan ... like not general civil defense, but, uh, something to do with an elite remnant, or a controlled remnant to survive ... #66: Okay, I have no further questions about our work this after- noon, but I would like you to take a look now maintaining your continuity at the building in which this room is located, so that you might be able to describe it to me ... And when you are ready we can prepare to draw... #31: All the things I get are of defensive nature. Everything is +39 like ... him; or involved in, the security of ... defensive nature. I did not get any offensive work or ... exporting of any interest or anything, it's all internal, to the country, or internal to the bureaucracy, I don't know which... He has many of these plans though. Many of these plans are sub- mitted, and he reviews them. And they're all alike ... "what if" plans, they're all plans, what if something happens, they're not the plans that are put into effect autom- oh, of their own volition, they're plans that are taken if something happens. #66: Okay. #31: Contingency plans of some kind. #66: Okay. If you'll hold your comments for a moment I'm going to turn the tape over now. Just relax and concentrate for a moment. You may continue ..... #31: Mm... I provoke him, I say our plans must be better than yours. He says no, your plans cannot be better than ours. And I say well, how do you know this? It is as though they have lived these plans before. Very interesting feeling, like we have been through this, they have been through this so they know much more about it than we would, so therefore their plans would be better, because like they've already done it and so they know what it's all about ..... I'm. ..hmm, that's about all I can get. Approved For Release 2000/0braN..1, ~,A-rWnbVL1881Z000600070001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 600070001-9 #66: Okay. Let's prepare to draw then the images that you have concerning SG1 B #31: Okay, um... The first thing I had was a ... a street side scene, a snowy city street side,,you know, with the snow piled up and all dirty and slushy from passing cars and everything. Sketch I shows.a ... standing on a street corner, looking along the side of a building from the left. A car pulls up. Guy gets out of the car. That's some sort of a pullover. Pull- ing off, you know, drive-up like thing on the side of the road and the guy gets out and walks up into the building. Some sort of a driveway and a sliding gate in the background, to the back right of sketch #1 and.a funny regul- vertical regularity around the place as.though I was looking at fence posts, large fence security, hurricane security fence posts with.wedgies on it, with V's on the top to carry concertina wire. Well, I've drawn that in and I'm pretty sure that the fence feeling, but there certainly was some sort of picketing around the building. Uh ... anyway, the guy got out of the car, walked up into the building.. Guy in a dark coat, bent over. So I sorta took it to be, you know, the guy. In sketch 2 I've drawn an overhead of sketch one. Uh... which, coincidentally enough, although when I first finished the session I didn't said I didn't recognize the building or anything, afterwards when I looked at the little sketch I noticed that the trees along the sidewalk in the sketch were dead and.that for the first time, or they seem to be have no leaves, and then they made little forks at the top of 'em, you know. So I don't know if I was at that place or not, and the fence may just be overlay or there may now be a fence since that picture was taken. But, uh...there ist I recognize and I acknowledge a certain similarity between my sketch 1 and 2 and, and the little photograph of the modern building. SG1 B #66: Okay, as opposed to the M headquarters building. #31: Yeah,.well, there's nothin' there that I can see that's similar, you know. #66: Okay. #31: You know, but.1 had a modern feeling about this place, about the place I was at. And there's a brick front, and there's a brick front here, you know.... And here's the, you know, the trees across the front sorta regular. It Is obviously got snow on the ground, you know. Approved For Release 2000/08/ r, _Q " Q 0 00070001-9 X.71;.;;V,XF T=rrl Approved For Release 2000/08/07 :a== R 0Q0600070001-9 %.#f L. W I % L. 1 #31: In the background here I noticed the caption says car which is seldom moved. There is a gate there, somethin' like that,.and I've got some sort of a gate and driveway there. -%N0, So ... after it's all over and said and done with I think that there's a similarity to the little building. #66: Okay. #31: Uh, okay, that's sketch 2 is the overhead. Sketch 3, oh, what's his namle? Goya, Goyeem, Goyem, hu,h? #66: Well, his, uh,= is his nickname'. SG1B SG1B #31: hu'h?- Okay. Anyway, I find him in some sort of a regularly, uh, regularly, in some sort of a L shaped barren room. Now that's the kicker is this like, it's like it's nearly vacant. Like he's the only guy.that's goL anything in there. He sits with his back to the wall at a desk on some sort of a little platform, not a big one, but some sort of a little platformt and god knows why they got him an a little platform there. Um, he's in a, along a free passageway as though he sits with his back to a partition which separates him from someone bigger. And like he's just an artifact sitting out front that people come and go by and he really-is not a guy that commands a lot of, um, kowtowing anymore. I'm not saying that he ever did, but right now he doesn't really. You-know the, you know the situation -that a guy is in that, uh ... uh, it's really a funny, funny situation, but like the guy, who is just, the colonel or the general who is just in- processing and he still isn't really the general yet. So people still- and he's sitting at a desk next to the outside from the real general and he's reading all this stuff maybe, but people don't have to kowtow to him yet, so they just walk by and talk to the old general. Yeah, it's that sort of a feeling, like he's stuck outside and people really don't bother with him. And that the real power is back behind him there. And as I've written here it's like he's, as if he's not the director but he's like the XO, someone who sits outside the director's office and nobody really bothers with him unless they have a specific reason to. And he's sitting there, some sort of linear thing like maybe flags even. This about a seventh floor. I've written seventh floor, but it's about the seventh floor window. It's not a ... not.a superstructure window.way high up, but it's not a regular two or three story apartment houseq which I thought I was in when I first started was like an apartment, a private residence, private apartment complex. Approved For Release 2000/08/ng Q T-_ __ o 600070001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 MAT- 00070001-9 %..AL. W 1 1% L. #31: Um, he reads these plans in the form of pamphlets, someone bigger sits back there. I'm reading here. Okay. That's that. And 4 is an overview of this room which has two windows that look out on the city from about the 7th floor ... And I'll write bigger guy's office. I did see a view of safes, when I was tryin' to talk to him... Really sort of mixed up. Uh ... didn't have as much luck really communicating. I don't think he wanted really to communicate. It was like you're not gonna have much luck, you know. You're not gonna do very well in this, trying this on me, but you can, you know, you're not gonna do very good. Um, several things really came through. One is that he seemed much older and feeble than I would've expected. You know, he's like, uh, Omar Btadley is, you know, really, really old and feeble type situation. Like me- and then this sort of fit in with where he was sitting, like pushed off on the side. Okay? Uh ... still rather quick but stuck doing some make work until me could be retired type of feeling. A feeling of reminiscing like, but still had some sort of a legitimate job, but he sorta knew it was all bullshit. Reviewing these plans, very conser- very involved in the east-west confrontation and how, and held sort of recognize that I, I think,that I via's a poten- tial hostile, with whom, I felt as though I was hostile enemy with whom he was having a very, uh, philisophical and abstract, gentlemanly, very discussion. Okay? SG1 B Uh ... what are the other high points? Something to do with training of youngsters. Something to do with security. And then the moreand more I worked with, I was like acting, you know, it was like...I was like provoking him to make something. 'Cause I wasn't getting anywhere. He was sitting at this desk, and I was standing to his right. And I like put'my hand down on the table real fast and I said our plans are just as good as your plans. And then he responded, he said no, they can't be, or they, IXorget what I said but theyl.re, they can't be as good as our plans. I said well why aren't they as good as our plans, or why aren't, you know, ours have got, ours are definitely better. And he said some- thing like.no because you haven't, the feeling was like you haven't lived through it, we have, so we know what we're . doing when it comes to this type of defensive thing. And it was like saving things from obli-, you know, from .... destruc- tion. I was like feeling things like, uh, the fleeting thought went through my head of how the Soviets evacuated all their major industries to the east during World War II. And they Approved For Release 2000/08/~m-~-O~,~Z-**~r-"ow--Drnno600070001-9 %.J L.%.Pl % ~ no Approved For Release 2000/08/07. 0070001-9 #31: had it all prioritized and all lined out. And when Germany came across and they fought a defensive battle,.and while they were delaying they could evacuate people, and they could evacuate industry to the east. Uh,.something to do with.saving...small little clicks ... or groups of people, like 50,000 here and 50,000.there, like maybe.civil defense, general civil defense planning. Which probably would.be in the KGBIs hands, you know, for the country. And-almost a elitist feeling like the people that were being saved-were somewhat elite in the sense that maybe they were-the educated of the country, or the-powered elite of the country.. Certainly the educated. Maybe.the powered elite of the country to carry on afterwards, you know. Some, you know, and this whole thing was like defense, general defense planning. That's about it. #66: Okay. I think you pretty well covered, uh, the subject matter. #31: That's all I have. Do you have any question,s? #66: No. #31: Do you have anything further to add? #66: No #31: Ha-ha-ha-ha. am bm Approved For Release 2000/08/07 :%GIN-4~610471koRaO0600070001-9 9 IApproved For Release 200ID/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788RO,00600070001-9 - I I TAB Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0600070001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 Cl RDP96-00788ROO0600070001-9 Fen eez- 7 Approved For Release 20 0/ CIA-RDP96-007 600070001-9 00-/ Nppr,,,ve d, Fo R lease 2000/08/07 Cl, '-RDA96-00788ROOO 0070001-9 N Nj For Release 2000/08/07 CIA-RDP96-00788ROOO&1%0070001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0600070001-9 As UA0 Cr 0 te St T 45 t C- Ile C-6 LuckVY- Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0600070001-9 VI 'i~ HE is Qo-7 e 0 13k.&T k~ I S -~,() - S6 W Approved For Release 2000/08/07 Cl RDP96-00788ROO0600070001-9 Sy Approved For Rele4se 2000/08/07 CIA- P96-00788ROOW00070001-9 I . Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00786ROO0600070001-9 ~~TAE TAB F Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0600070001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/07 ~'-,C4'A--R[W9q-q -9 Vjpo,rTvvN0070001 TARGET CUING INFORMATION REMOTE VIEWING (RV) SESSION DC-BB 1. (S/NOFORN) Information provided the remote viewer is documented as a presession interview and.included in the transcript. Attached are photographs shown to the remote viewer. 2. (S/NOFORN) During the session the remote viewer was asked to elaborate on portions of his descriptions relating to the intelligence question at hand. PIQ U 2~0"" Approved For ReleasR02pWp~ 1:10MWmrQQn70001-9 VHL-Zr ORCON SG1 B SG1 B 4P y- no GlB S c SG1 B k-0 t7i f-~, P-S SG1 B Approved For Release 2000/08/07 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0600070001-9 SG1B Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0600070001-9 Next 1 Page(s) In Document Exempt Approved For Release 2000/08/07 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO0600070001-9