Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 TRANSCRIPT HU-1042/TNG/03 #66: This will be a CENTER LANE training interview for 0900 hours 14 October 1983. The time is 0900 hours. Acquire the local site. #03: Trees. #66: Correct. #03: Open. #66: Correct. #03: Road. #66: Near the site. #03: Swings. #66: Near the site. #03: Like an antenna. Break. #66: Okay, now write AOL, antenna, break. Acquire the local site. We're still on general concepts now. #03: Rolling. #66: Correct. #03: Grassy. #66: Correct. #03: Cable. #66: Can't feedback. #03: ........... #66: Report. #03: ..Miss ... Break #66: Okay. We're now going to move into the sensory area, so the next prompter I give you , we're going to move the stage 2 arena. Tell me how the situation feels to you, the kinesthetics, the Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 feelings, the sensory inputs that come from the site. Acquire the site. #03: Cool, shady. #66: Correct. #03: Breeze. #66: Correct. #03: ...... Gravelly ground. #66: All right. Now from your posturing, is that a confusion break? #03: Description break. It's hard to explain it. #66: Okay. If it's hard to explain, it's a confusion break. #03: Well, I know what it is but I, it's kind of gritty ground, I can kind of feel crunchy as you walk around on it, crunchy, maybe that's the word I want. #66: Okay. We have a, ... listen to what you said now. You have a walking around. You have a sound, "crunchy" and you're trying in your head to figure all that out, which means you are not reporting the signal line fast enough or we have to slow down the input, so that you have time to report it. Okay, so we're working on stage 2s and they don't come linearly, they come in chunks. You had a too much break. #03: Too much break. #66: You had a too much break. #03: That's because ail of them happen in conjunction like that. #66: Yes. A too much break. #03: And while we were talking, 1 had the impression of dried leaves, which is not unexpectable. #66: That's fine. Okay you had a too much break. Okay, compose yourself. #03: Okay, let me put this down here. Okay. 2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 #66: Stage 2s, acquire the the local site. #03: Rustle. #66: Probably Correct. #03: ...... Leaf fall sound. #66: Probably correct. #03: ....... #66: All right, you had a sigh and a worry and something there. what? Declare what went on in your head. "I #03: 1t was probably again a too much break. #66: All right. Get a new piece of paper. #03: Okay, I've got a curved road going through the woods like that in the shade. #66: Curved road going through the woods in the shade near the site. Okay, too much break #03: #66: Acquire the local site. #03: .... Confusion. #66: Break. Okay, now declare your confusion. You say I have a confusion break, now you declare. Tell me about your confusion. #03: Oh2 I was getting all sorts of picnic ground sort of images, garbage cans, water faucets, those all outdoor. #66: Write all those in, outdoor, picnic table, garbage cans. Yeah, okay, that's fine. Okay we're looking exclusively for stage 2 feelings about the target,only those things, so that includes colors and sounds, and so forth. All right #03: Okay. #66: So write down a little S2 on your paper. All right, acquire the local site. 3 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 #03: Brown. #66: Correct. #03: Hard and cool. #66: Correct. #03: .......... #66: ls that a confusion break I detect. #03:L An analytic break #66: AOL break, declare. #03: 1 get rocks. #66: All right. - Acquire the site. #03: ...... Rough. #66: Correct. #03: *.- .... I get a stage one, whatever, I don't know, down, AOL it's like a valley. #66: Correct. Let's stay on the break now, we're on break now. You are no longer on site. #03: All right. #66: Tell me about this down, is it an up looking down, a up and down, something down below, tell me about the AOL. #03: It's like, I'll tell you how I got it. It was like 1 was standing there in the edge of the woods , turned around looked out, and there's just kind of a little swale that goes off in to the distance, then you see something out there. It's a gradual smooth sort of a ground. #66: Okay, now are you telling me you had a visual? #03: Yeah. #66: Okay. At this stage in the game, visuals are AOL. 4 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Your mind is trying to make something visual, this signal, this remote viewing stuff , at this stage, is not visual. #03: That's why I put AOL valley down here. #66: Very good, very good. There may in f act be a valley or a down component, but your mind tries to make you go visual on it and it's properly declared as an AOL. #03: That's what most of my images are, or what most of these things turn up as visuals. But there I try and interpret the essence of what that is. #66: Well, when you try to interpret the essence you are spending too much time. That's fine. Draw a line across your paper. Write s2, acquire the site. #03: AOL break. I get a lot of these. Hard, cool metal girder. #66: Okay. #03: So hard and cool if it's in there. #66: Okay, visual of a hard cool metal girder. #03: Yes, red. #66: Red in color. All right. Acquire the site. #03: Hollow sound. #66: Probably correct. #03: ....... #66: Okay. You've got to do something it's been too long. #03: I've got a ..well it's a break. #66: All right. #03: 1 guess a confusion break. #66: Okay. A new piece of paper. Now summarize your stage 1 and stage 2 signals. Go back and look at 5 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 the stage 1 signals. Go back and look at the stage 1 signals that I told you were correct and the stage 2 signals I told you correct and write a summary. #03: 1 just want to put, I had some AOL here just before the break. #66: All right. Very good. #03: 1 got an overhead, it's like it's open on the sides, but there is some kind of roofing overhead. #66: Okay. A feeling like something overhead, but opened at the sides. #03: Yeah, right. Okay. #66: You're going to write this down on your third piece of paper and you're going to label it summary at the top. Okay, put Sl and then summarize your gestalt. What do you know about this general site. Look at your paper, don't go to the site, look at your paper. #03: 1 read these and it reminded me of what I--- #66: 1 know. #03: Okay. #66: We're not on site right now. #03: Okay, I get the idea of , okay, I'm just using the same sort terms here, I won't say what I think it is. #66: That's right. All you do is write down what your corrects are. You said things and I told you what was correct. Write down what you know, basically what you said, what you know about the site. #03: Okay. #66: Say them to me as you write. #03: Okay, There's open areas, trees. #66: Fine. 6 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 #03: Road near by and swings. It I s kind of a rolling terrain, it's grassy, cool and shady with a breeze. #66: Uh, uh. #03: 1 don't know what the feedback was for gravelly, rough ground, crackly or whatever I say. #66: Crunchy, that was when you walked or something like that. That was a too much break. #03: Yeah. #66: That's fine. Let's not worry about those things, those are AOLs. They may be relevant, but let's not worry about them. If you declare them as AOLs, then that's what they are right now. #66: Before you go on, look at me. AOLs are not right or wrong, they're different and that's why you declare them as being different. Usually they are your mind trying to explain something of the target. Sometimes your mind explains it correctly and sometimes it screws it up. So AOLs are not right or wrong, they're AOLs. #03: Okay, they're oranges when we're talking about apples then. #66: Maybe. #03: They might be apples but we don't know it. #66: Or tangelos. #66: Okay, write down stage 2s now and continue your summary. What do you know. #03: Okay, okay, brown, hard and cool, rough, down I guess, downward or whatever. #66: Right. #03: Hollow sound. #66: Right. #03: 1 guess that's all of them. Well, I don't know, there's a hard, cool and red. It's like hard, cool metal. 7 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 #66: Okay, write those down, hard, cool red metal. #03: 1 don't think I got any feedback on those. Probably because it was an AOL at the time. #66: Right. #03: But I got a strong impression that those elements were there. #66: Okay, get your summary, now read your summary out loud. #03: Okay, trees, I guess in the stage 1 1 had trees, open area, road, swings, rolling terrain. #66: Road and swings near by. #03: Yeah. I better put that in there. Rolling terrain, grassy, cool and shady with a breeze. #66: Okay, and what are some of the stage 2s about this? #03: Brown, hard, cool, rough, downward, hollow sound, hard, cool and red. #66: Okay draw a line across your paper. Stage 3s. Now we're going to look for dimensional things. We want this target to have a change in aperture now, we want this dimensional thing like you were to suddenly now like on a camera, you are going to close the F stops down, and this thing is now going to receive a dimension thing. Understand what I mean. In camera talk, you understand what happens when you close the F stop down. Suddenly you get a depth of field to the target or a change apperture. #03: (mumble) perspective. #66: Yeah, you're going to close the aperture down and move to stage 3 and this site is going to have a depth of feel to it. All right? ' #03: Okay, are you talking about size of objects in relation to each other, or are you talking about distances. #66: Don't worry about what I'm talking about, just listen to what I'm saying. We're going to change the aperture on the camera, all right. And this 8 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 site is now going to have a depth of field to it. So now I don't want to know about stage 1s and stage 2s, the only thing you're going to report to me is the depth of field of the target. Don't worry about what that means, just report that information to me, all right. #03: Report whatever is that you don't know --- #66: You don't have to understand. Remember you're responsibility is only to report, not to understand or make sense out of what you're reporting. All right? Write down S3. #03: Dimensions. Okay. #66: All right. #03: All right. #66: Acquire the local site. Time. #03: ........ Confusion break. I guess I'm not-- #66: That's fine. You're doing just fine. Remember stage 3s are expressed in sketches and things, okay. You can't necessarily say these things in words. The expression of stage 3 signal is ah.. drawings and sketches. #03: Okay. I wasn't copying what stage 3 was, and that was the problem, I didn't know what I was doing. #66: The way you express stage 3 is through drawings and sketches. All right. #03: Okay. #66: All right. Acquire the local site. #03: .............. That's that girder I was, thought I was seeing. #66: All right. You can say some things about your sketches. #03: .... I'm getting an overhead view, woodline, open. #66: A wood line near the sight. I know that. Write down stage 3 at the top of the paper. Acquire the site. 9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 #03: ........ AOL. Household power meter. #66: Okay. Let's stay on AOL break. Write the word break, AOL break, that means we're breaking from the signal line here. You must express with your hand before your mouth. #03: Oh, okay. #66: Stage 3 signal lines come through in sketches and then you talk about what happened during that sketch afterwards. The signal won't come through correctly if you allow it to process verbal. Don't let it process verbal. Let it come through the hand first. #03: It's a hard one to draw, it's easier to say it. Okay, stage 3 #66: Stage 3, acquire the local site. #03: ....... I got what I think was a swing set. Posts attached by cable . ...... See Saws. #66: Okay. Draw a line on your paper. Okay, now we're going to move to stage 4. Stage 4s are activities or actions that happen at the place. You want to describe what our outbounders are doing at this locations. Okay. #03: Okay. #66: Now this is done, not in drawing so much, but in verbalization. And here we can get visuals. You can also t kinesthetic feelings, you know like being dizzy, drowning, or breathing heavily or you know. #03: Umm, umm. #66: Really get into the meat what goes on, what are these outbounders doing. #03: Could I have picked up stage 4s earlier on? #66: Absolutely, absolutely. #03: And can I put them down if I still have that feeling. #66: That's right. And remember the correct signals come through in sequence, there fore stage 4s 10 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000108108 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 perceived earlier have less likely hood of being true if they don't come through, I Im not saying they're wrong. If you still have them, should do them. If you get them during the stage 1 time frame, what you do is zip off to the side of your paper and write stage 4, rivel frabit, right. What I'm saying is you have to learn to recognize the difference between a stage 1 and stage 4. Okay, so we're ready to move on to stage 4s. Acquire the local site. Describe activity. #03: Walking. #66: Correct. #03: Picking something up. #66: Can't feedback. #03: 1 lost it. Break. What kind of break? #66: 1 lost it break is fine. Notice how good you were in your descriptions, they were three word groups, not complete sentences, it's excellent. #03: One problem I have to get over right here, and I just now recognize it, (mumble) I keep wanting to reply to your reply and that distracts me. Okay let's try it again. #66: Acquire the local site. Describe activity. #03: ......... Touching something. #66: Probably correct. #03: Climbing. #66: Correct. #03: AOL, ladder. AOL break. #66: AOL break, ladder. #03: Ladder, steel, rungs, still stage 4? #66: Yes. Acquire the local site. Describe activity. #03: Sight seeing. Pointing, discussing, sitting on edge. AOL break. I guess this is AOL. I get the impression of a, like sitting on the of a metal platform., and dangling feet over. 11 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 #66: Okay. #03: At right that instant I got a picture of one of those little playground merry-go-rounds. I'll put it in, what the heck. 1 think my brain was trying to associate things there. #66: Oh, absolutely. That's properly declared as AOL. #03: Okay, break. #66: Yes. Okay stage 4s. Break out walking. #03: .... Strolling around. ...hands in pockets. #66: All right, 15 minutes ago, describe walking 15 minutes ago. #03: Got an instant picture, a line, here we go again with AOL again. #66: Fine. #03: Break. Soon as you said that, I got a picture I had before where they appeared to be walking, didn't of ducking a little bit under a platform sort of thing with gravel on the ground underneath and it was cool and shady underneath. #66: Okay and you have them walking underneath something up on poles, is that correct? #03: Yes, they walked under here. And I'm getting too specific I know but-- #66: All right, go ahead. #03: But Tom had put his hand on a pole or metal thing and was saying something about it. #66: Okay, now I'm going to ask you to do something a little different now. Okay, put your pencil, your pen on the that little sketch you had, put your pencil on the thing that's being held up by the poles. Describe. #03: Weil, now it seems like a horizontal ladder. That's what I thought of when you said that. #66: All right. 12 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08108: CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 #03: I'll mark that in here. I guess that isn't the impression 1 got from it before. #66: All right. #03: It might be a different object. #66: Okay, put your pen on it again. Keep your pen on it, tell me stage 2s, what's it feel like, sensory. #03: Hard and cool, ..... shaded .... and solid. #66: All right, draw an arrow to it and write those words down underneath. #03: Arid I got the feeling then of that corregated kind of metal, like they have on truck bumpers sometimes, corregated steel or whatever it is, with little bumps on it. #66: All right. Put your pen back on that. Okay, describe activity associated with this. #03: Holding something up and something on it. Then I get an AOL transformer. Another AOL of microwave tower .... in Germany. #66: Okay, those are good AOL declarations. Okay, go back to your drawings and see if you can find that previously stage 3s. #03: This may be part of it. But I don't think anything else has anything to do with it, in fact I think that this is part of it. #66: Okay, what is it that you pointed to. #03: This is that thing that was a girder, that I said was a girder which was kinder of like an "I" beam with rivets in it or something somewhere. And bef are I had an image of Tom putting his hand on that which would tie in with this over here. #66: All right. #03: So that may be part of it. #66: Okay. Okay, I have no further questions, do you have anything that you want to say? 13 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 #03: * * * * * * * , No. Well, there is one thing. I got little 1 1 e o w flowers. y #66: Okay. #03: 1 keep getting these, (bumped mike) I got this cement culvert standing on its end. #66: Okay, draw me a sketch of that, because I don't understand what you mean. #03: Okay. #66: New piece of paper. #03: Oh well, I'll put it here. (mumble). #66: Okay. #03: It's kind of like this. And it's sitting in the gravel. I think it's part a playground and it may part of the playground I saw a long time ago too. So that's an AOL, definitely. #66: A cement culvert. #03: Okay. #66: And that's just a piece of one you drew there? #03: That's it. It seems like it's about this tall. How tall is that, about 2 1/2 feet. #66: Okay. We'll call this end then. You always write down end, that means we're through then. Okay? #03: Did we use up half hour already? #66: More than. #03: Is that right? #66: Yes. Okay? #03: Yes. #66: Good. 14 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 201*NWI~WIDP96-00788 ROO 1600030001-2 J, Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/Ofi~:~iiZP96-00788 ROO 1600030001-2 14/ C- L/LA,I Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600030001-2