SG1A Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 Next 2 Page(s) In Document Exempt Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08: Cl~Dt -tt8ROO1600110002-2 INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT #66: This will be a CENTER LANE interview source #01. Time is 0900 hours and the date is 08 Dec 1982. On 8 Dec 1982 at SG1A is a building which is perceptible. #01: There's some kind of open corridor in a "C" shape building. Very large central columns holding the roof up. I Im going to find that place important. Found a la e room with-many, many tables, people at tables. They got these 1~alrge folders, hard back folders with like binders, with many sheets of large paper like going through these sheets. It's a libr-ary_of some kind. There is some form redundant analysis. #66: Break this out. #01: -Keepi-na--r-ec-ords on, keeping records on places, taking information off cards, some kind of information cards; small like old Fashioned IBM cards, like little holes. Writing, penciling in very small on the large sheets. Going to another room. See papers everywhere. See Igae vqlqme-Jpqks-,-s-tacked in vertical storage cabinets. #66: Move now to an alternate area of interest which is perceptible. #01: Get a lq~ge sections of floors that are compartmented separate ent,ranceJ guards. They're like blocked from one another. For one f got Somehow I got some kind, it's confusing, it's like-- #66: Report. #01: -- rojections,.on-the walls of microned sized things under high 'p _ _ powered microscopes. Projections are being mapped someway. Something to do with mapping. They're small squares, they're not on sheets. That's very clean. See great concern with sections of projections. #66: Personnel are? #01: Male, female mixed. It's seems to be more female than male. People appear to be dressed very well. #66: Activity of personnel is perceptible. #01 Got people doing tracing. People working on photographic record of projections. People are walking with strange looking notebooks, flip over pages, talking, writing. #66: Listen in and report. CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, DAMI-ISH DIG: 051630ZJUL78 P DECL: Origination Agency's N. ni IN A IT Determination Required Al C., I- Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96tT8ROO1600110002-2 P --. #01: Just a minute, I'm kind of losing it, I want to get it back here. #66: 1 will wait. #01: Interest seems to be in tracing command routes of some kind, not military command, it's Rtlfthg-functional command.' I don't understand that. They're tracing functional command, decision messages of some kind formed . #66: Tell me about this projection concept. #01: Small black squares under thick glass, "V11 shaped machine, goes through some black boxes, comes out through a projector. Projected on a some white square and produces some kind of map. It's not a topographic map, but it's some kind of map, though. #66: Okay. Move now to an alternate area within the complex. #01: Find a qggga~_Irobm full_of reels,- glass reels, vault like storage tare4j 4asp reels, c"Ije -plastic rings, '-xows of rings. Very few people around there WgAuw-white smocks, storage area. Getting a general overall building concept. I can just taste it, I can't interpret it yet. #66: That's fine. Let's move to another area now. #01: Got %=,PQter are-a. Struck with an impression that it's an IBM, J, --e a-- b-4,g. IBM computer, "L" shaped CPU, rows of black and gray tape drives-w-i ... see other kinds too. Small black box type equipments. #66: Okay. Go through and on to another area now. #01: Get a gut feeling that thisb"l ing is a general-ckmcern -'a-patggorizing, aD~Lstoring informatiop. Keep getting roams full of tables and people and boxes of cards, and huge books$ binders with many pages, histories, histories and places and things. Very complicated cross index systems, very complex. Looking for a main control center type place. See a tp-zkrke--oQnaarn-j--x.-histQ,ry of research and development. #66: Break this out. #01: 11=Y'gp_,aot__dQing rese-arch and development, but they're tracing f4-=" aud-developemnt,. I don't understand that. #66: Alright. That's very good. Let's focus, let's narrow your attention now to physical space in time rather then the conceptual imprint of the building, which is fine,-and move that focus in physical space to the middle area of this "C" shiaped, the outside middle area. Describe this to me. 2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 - Approved For Release 2000/0 /08 : CIA- -00788R001 600110002-2 81/08 CIA #01: Outside middle area-- #66: In what might be referred to as the center of the"C". #01: Outside? #66: Yes, outside. #01: I'm just surrounded by building. #66: All right. #01: Getting an impression of two functions now, 3~~ ~letelyseRar~_ tunctiownow. The qJdQxpart of the building is the tracing of R&D ,Vntrthe.-, Part is R&D. Sort of a projection of lessons learned. I feel like I'm leaning on an old cannon, kind of an old seige gun. #66: Okay. In this area as you observe the building around you, do you feel as though the area you were exploring before was in the older section. #01: Yes, definitely. #66: Okay. Move now into the newer section. Move into the building now, into the newer section and it becomes perceptible. #01: Get aa*rite room feeling, hospital type feeling, -c2-qq,0_,_eVerything clean._ -.Bright white lights, white walls, white tables, everything white., lab type,-vhite. Ea-e- eople holding sheets of something against P _;ights. L-gdt machine that holds small piece of something plastic. Mwly lines coming away from the center, Poard with lights, some kind of test. #66: Very good. Move an to now to another area of the new section of building. Other areas become perceptible. ,- ~ -just #01: Seeia-rzaom with-blueprints, large blueprints, many colors-- ot there's blue lines, red lines, brown and black, even j4~tp.-Jines, just like jig-saw puzzles, spread on very large tables lit from the bottom. --4emething ' things are brought here from wzoss the street somewhere from across the street.---Therels ---,,somewhat processed, but finished processing is done here. #66: These things are perceptible. #01: 4&Iack spLid-e-r-Like- objects. -Kind oT -roundish looking with a bunch of wire legs coming out all directions. They're modern technology but-kind of crude too, in a sense. #66: You say they are brought from another place, decribe the route to -the other place. #01: Right across the street,9braught through a tunnel &nder the---st-re&E. Get an impression of, flashing impression ofa~--Iarge fur-na-ce and -i--- ,"a~.Jittle furnace, sme process having to do with intense heat. But it's not,~theylre nol large objects,-they're tiny. I'm losing it now. Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 R001600110002-2 #66: Okay. I want in a question Is there persDnnel _--these all q j&v, #01: Completely 4ffarant sections. to ask just one format, so I hODe difference the same people people. more question, and this will be I don't disturb you in that. between the old and the new section, or they different people somehow? '3 It's rikle there's a waff-5iitwe"en the #66: Describe this difference between. #01: AUne's a researcher and the research is in the new building. The .,collectors are in the old building. #66: All right. Now I have no further questions about the building which we have been exploring. But I would now like to give you just a few minutes to expand, to explore and to comment on your own. #01: Getting a lot of heavy impressions of very ulta-modern aircraft, but I don't know if it's overlay or not, it seems to be Bisasso-ciated from the building. But it might have something to do with the building. Like fighter aircraft. Black boxes,. That's all I get. #66: All right I would like you now to draw for me the areas of this building that you described. 101 4 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA- 001600110002-2 DRAWING EXPLANATION 01: Page_#117. Old building or old section, we'll call it old section because the buildings are connected. y&LL_QaD1t o from one to the ~jqj_bgrj but they're fastened to on2--wig1ther The Page #1 is sort of like a partial description of a huge bay like room. It has all these very heavy ledger type binders. You know, they don't have fixed pages in them but pages can be inserted and taken out, stacked vertically in like holders, boxes type things against the wall. Very large tables where these things can be unfolded and everything and little boxes full of IBM like cards. They're not IBM cards but they're very much like IBM cards, and which they then record information historically in these ledger books. And this is on objects and places. 01: ~W642 is in the old section and it is a is approximately 40 x 50 feet in size and rows upon rows of stacked ringed objects. impressions of glass in these objects, so of some kind. I don't know what those are. in there. vault like room which it has just rows upon Which I was getting they are like containers There's a million of them #01: Pag-e-0 is old section and this is the exact view I had of a computer and it struck me as being a very large IBM computer. That's the impression I was hit with. It has two rows of like 8 to 12 tape deck drives, the big stand up type drives. It's got a lot of sequential storage type devices. Then it has a big long row of gray boxes against the wall, which I feel are probably on-line storage devices or operational space. And apparently it's got some kind of modification fastened to the front end of it. It's a black box type thing. Because it's part of the CPU, it's fastened to the side of the CPU. #01: ,Pag`644 is old section of the building. It's where they're putting things of micron size under projectors and matching and mating things, you know they're projecting overlays and inserts on a wall and there's people taking notes on flip charts of whatever these projections are. But I'm struck by, I use the term map, because I'm struck by the straight numbers of straight lines and whatnot, which are all different colors and which appear to be like roads on a flat surface. #01: -Rage #5 is new section, what I call new section of building. And this is a top view of the lab and test room in which there is a lot of test equipment. But one piece in particular that struck my curiosty is this huge metal, I don't know if it's metal, it's this huge coller that has this spider, black spider type device suspended in the middle, very fine wires with legs coming out the sides, all over. And they're fastened through this coller type device to a lot of really heavy cables or wires that go in a black boxes on both sides and they in turn of heavy cables that run into the consoleg control console, it's like a test console. That in turn is fastened to a display, which gives all kinds of pattern displays, you know depending on which. knobs you're turning on the console. And other than Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 ~ I` 91F - r 8f001600110002-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-Fig that, the lab areas in the new section really struck me as ultra-modern, very, everything white, white coats, white walls, white, you know, dust free, clean, all this kind of stuff. It's like walking-into an operating room in a hospital, but it's not a medical hospital, just a very clean, white, alot of white, bright light. #66: Okay. Although we didn't spend time exploring the newer section of the building, do you have any other feelings about any other areas in the building, in the new section? #01: Just that there's partially made objects of some kind that are brought there through this tunnel, that goes across the~street like to another building area, but I'm trying to remember what I'm seeing that's coming through this tunnel. And all I'm seeing is packets, wrapped packets of some kind that have things in them.. And then I have a flash of a almost transparent sheet that somebody's holding up to a very intense light, you know. Like they're doing a quick scan of this sheet for something. You know I get a lot of flashes of some scenes. #66: Okay. #01: So, that's all I get. #66: Anything else? #01: No 'E" T 2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 0788ROO1600110002-2 .0 4 4n zi V k VI, A Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 0%788ROO1600110002-2 3 A I) OV t4 PI(I Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 Approved For Rlelease 01 4- 16106 10002-2 ib^ 43, rZt Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 :CIA R001600110002-2 4L V, _J11 "TiATT Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2 1/08 -L88RO01 600110002-2 Approved For Release 2000/0E IN. t4 t Ora .......... 'all RA -1 &C VZ- 4~j kA Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600110002-2