SG1A Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 Next 2 Page(s) In Document Exempt Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 120002-1 Approved For Release 20C DP96-00788ROO1600 INTERVIEW 66: This will be a CENTER LANE interview with source #01. The time is 0900 hours, 12 January 1983. Focusing your attention now on 8 December 1982, at SG1A There is a building which is perceptible. Focus now and describe the area within which you know as the old section of the building on 8 December 1982. 01: Someone sitting at a table.. a bell shape and back against a bookcase.. long tables, some kind of ledger--books. 66: Do you recognize this area? 01: Yes. 66: All right. I'm interested in the area in the old section, of large hard back folders. 01: There's the folders. 66: Describe activity you now perceive. 01: ..feel they're folding out the sheets, sheets of paper folding out of the folders. 66: Describe your perspective as you watch this happen. 01: Okay, just a.minute ....... I'm watching ah..someone taking information off of cards. They're writing on these sheets. 66: Describe the person doing this. 01: ..It's ah, appears to be a woman, middle aged, wearing a light gray coat, smock type coat ... It's just a box in there, many cards in the box in some kind of sequential order ... She's taking the cards out and writing numbers and letters on the sheets. 66: All right. Now concentrate, concentrate and focus, move and become one with this individual. Move and become one. Look down at this folded out sheet and describe it to me. 01: ... It's a hierarchy of data, something to do with tests or.. continuity on something. CLASSIFIED BY: MSG,DAMI-ISH DIG: 051630ZJUL78 DECL: Origination Agency's N Determination Required TO FOARE4 I GN NATIONAZ3 c Approved For Release 2000108108 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 Approved For Release 20F PO MEIC IA-RDP96-00788RO01 600120002-1 66: Describe the format. 01: It's double columns and they're all-six digit numbers ... just a minute. 66: 1 will wait. 01: .....They're like in ah-scalloped or tree designs. There's specific lengths or measures and tests-they branch,..keep getting a picture of.spirals and splits with numbers. 66: Describe your position of observation. 01: Looking straight down on the paper. 66: From this position, can you see the entire sheet? 01: Yes, it's got three folds..Let me just..ah ..... 66: Waiting. 01: Just a minute. 66: 1 will wait. 01: ... There's two double columns in the left. It's in the edge of the left fold ... Those are key numbers..And then there's a circle in the center of the-second fold on the third page. And it's a,:M branches and spirals in numbers-that change, something to do with-some kind of measurement. But I don't know what kind. 66: All right. Now listen to my guidance. Listen to my guidance now as you look down upon this folded out page. Focus on the upper left quarter of the format. Focus, observe and remember. Now working around to the right, the upper right quadrant of the format. Look, observe and remember. Working around to the right and down, the lower right quadrant, look, observe and remember. And now moving on around the lower left quadrant, look, observe, remember. And now. once again the whole thing the whole folded out page, look, observe, remember. 66: Now before we move to another area of the building, is there anything else you'd like to tell me about this ledger and this lady's activity. 01: Just a minute. 66: 1 will wait. 01: .... No, not right now. 66: All right. Remember the page you observed and you can draw it for me later. 2 El Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 ,Approved For Release 2000/08AP .1 IDP96-00788 ROO 1600120002-1 01: Okay. 66: Now,.relax and concentrate and free your mind of the perceptions you've had. Free your mind now and move to that area of the old section where you saw wall projections, where you saw people looking at wall projections. Move to that area now and describe -the area to me. 01: ... It's like ah, it's amachinethat's projecting a..series of lines on the wall from some,kind of.anothdr mabhine ... 1-tis "~! projecting things you can't see with your eyes..only can see it when it's projected..slows things down so you can see them. 66: Describe this machine that does this. 01: Large, box shaped..uses ah ... shoots something in the end that bounces around inside. Some kind of measurement device-that ah..measures time, relationship of time to something. Time and ah, time and ah, Idon't know, variances in energy. 66: All right. Focusing on this machine that does this. In your mind picture it in component parts. Functional modules that maybe fit together. Describe these pieces to me. 01: ..There's the projector part that shoots a beam, that's one part. It's controlled beam. - : Tfic elements bf the beam can be changed, very, very narrow beam. It's the same component, is a ah..shield or a holder-that can be changed, that can be made up of different things. And the third part.is,a... a apparently some kind of holographic or spectrographic type of sensing device-that measures time rate or frequency or something. I just keep seeing a splatter of particles across ..a color spectrum. And then there's a projection part that shows-electronically an a projection what this is. 66: All right. You said before there were people that came and looked at this projection? 01: yes. 66: Have you got perception now.? 01: Yes, I see projection-- is slowed down so they can recall it, like frame by frame and this black box machine, in parts, docs this check or test very rapidly and then they a..the film of this is recalled by frame. And they look for..a unique a..variances in the patterns-differences in..a particles or something. 66: All right. Focus yourself now on this projection. Look at it with those in the room and describe it to me. 3 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 on r Appro ~ed For Release 2000/08161, - -IDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 PAUSE 01: Looks like a... 66: Be careful to describe exactly what you perceive and not (mumble). 01: --1 know I--- 66: 1 will wait. 01: ... It's foggy.. 66; Go ahead. 01: Cloud like projection, ah..very perceptive paths or lines all overlining one another, some curve, some-intersecting and branching out, some dwindling out to nothing. But some are brighter than others, as if they're being used where others aren't. It's all foggy or cloudy. Never the same set of patterns per frame. ...Like looking very deeply into the ... machanics of a..some tiny atomic particle. It's always moving. ...I don't know... 66: Very good. 01: ..1 don't know. Surprising technology, very high tech. ...It's like they're carving up atoms. Splattering them into a picture... ..Trying to map the mechanics of it or the a$ a yea, what makes it work. All you can get is the reflection of the energy discharges, when they-when they break down, ..when they come apart. 66: All right. I have no further questions for you. But I would like to allow you a few mements to explore and comment on your own. Do this how. 01: Trying to look for a reason, for doing this. Just a minute. 66: 1 will wait. PAUSE 01: They're apparently varying some type of beam projection and then trying to measure the ... the resultant aberration or change in the.. the frequency of movement of a atom, I keep getting a picture of an atom with a revolving things, electrons, protons and whatnot. And I see it, it's frequency being altered and I see the things flying apart and they're measuring the, that point of breakdown or whatnot. And..the a..required energy in the beam that cause the aberration. That's all I get. 66: All right, fine. Very good. 4 (% Approved For Release 2000108108: CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 -AeC IA-RDP96-00788 ROO 1600120002-1 Approved For Release 200010~ _ t DRAWING EXPLANATION 01: Page #1 is the foldout logger, folder. It's in three parts and I depicted what's two columns on the left hand side. And these columns run all the way to the bottom of the page, but they're not necessarily filled in all the way down. But they're filled in with 6 digit numbers. There's like a title line at the top thatla very.short. And then there's an ID line that's got four or five different spaces in it, underneath that. That's on the upper left hand side and it runs as far as it has to across the sheet. There's a very squared off blocked diagram with a lot of intersecting IlYs" and angles and some dotted lines. And what appears to always be five sided figures, when they do create a figure. And the line chart is always different from folder to folder. And at each intersection are stacked digits, of two lines of six digits each. And the first is always higher than second and the second is not too far off ftom the first number. But they are always different for each intersection. And this is connected in some way to the projections. I think the differences are reflecting time and energy~,~diff6renc'ei,-,.1"And it has something to do with densities or these logs reflect densities in some way. All these logs are kept from cards that are in some kind of order and delivered to these logging clerks or whatever, in a box and they're always in some kind of an order. And they're either keeping track of or annotating these log cards in a way that will cause them to be used for updating some- thing else. I'm talking around an axle, here, and I'm not really sure I know what I mean. But the logs are connected to the cards and the cards are IBM size. They don't appear to be IBM cards, but they look like it. They're about the same size. 01: Page #2 is a picture of what I percieve to be the presentation an the wall. And these presentations are still life, you know, they're not moving. Thby're given a frame at a time. They're always different. Some of the lines are very ghost like, as if they're after thoughts. And other lines are very illuminated and superimposed or underimpo8ed over the ghostlike, arunder the ghostlike images. And it's all like in a fog. And there seems always be a huge black dot, kind of fuzzy, that's right in the center of each of the frames. And I get the feeling like this is an electronic presentation of something, like the mechanics of.something that's going on. It's captured in like a hundred frames and then you go back and look at each individual frame, because whatever happens is so rapid that you know it can't be looked at any other way. And it can't be seen with human eye, so it has to be done with machines. And that it has something to do with the projection of different beams or fequencies through different materials. And that's all. 66: Okay, fine. Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 Approve For Release 20t(O k-'~P96-00788ROO`l Lf, 6001~0002-1 4.2 "C kn ju C4 44.-1 40_ ET CP :2 7 T Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 18: CIA-RDP96-00 R001600120002-1 For use of th Is form, wee FM 30-17(C), A R 381-130, the proponent agency Is th a Office a I the As sl stop t Chief of Staff for In to I H gence. 1. NAME OF SUBJECT OR TrUE Of INCiDENT 2. DATE SUR&jITTED SG1A 'i CO~FAOL'SYMIIOL OP. FILE NUMBER CL-987/8210/01 SG1A REPORT W On 12 January 1983, Source CL.-01 was interviewed concerning Wring a previous interview (CL-973/8210/010 conducted 8 Decemb 1982) Source described a room with hard-back folders and a room of wall projections. This interview was an attempt to have Source further describe these areas. ~3ource stated substantially as Follows: The ha~rd-back folders contained foldout sheets of paper. Clerks extracted data from IBM sized cards and entered this data on the foldout sheets. Information on the foldout sheets was a hierarchy of data and had something to do with tests or continuity on something. These sheets had t.hree folds. On the top of the sheet was a title line and an ID line. There were columns of six digit numbers on the left side or fold. The rest of the foldout sheet had a very squared off blocked diagram with a lot of intersecting "Ys" and angles and sonie dotted lines. At each intersection of lines were two six digit-, numbers, one above the other. The first number was always higher then the second and the second vass not too Far off from the first number. Each set of numbers were different for each intersection. The differences in the numbers may have been reflecting time and energy differences. All this had something to do with densitieo or these logs (foldout sheets) reflected densities. In the room of wall projections there was a machine that projected a series of lines on Lhe wall from some kind of other machine. Things were projected which could noL be seen with the eye. In the projection things were slowed down so they could be seen. The machine had a projector part thaL shot a very narrow beam. It had a changeable shield or holder. The third part was a holographic or spectrographic type of sensing device which measured time rate or frequency. Then there was a part which electronically displayed. The display or projection from this machine was cloud like with paths or lines all overlining one another. Some lines or paths were brighter than others. Each separate projection or frame had a different seL of patterns. Source felL as Lhough he was looking very deeply into the mechanics of some tiny atomic particle. Source provided the following unsolicited comments reference his opinion as to the reason behind I-,he activities described above: They were apparently varying some type of beam projection and then trying to measure the resultant aberration or change in the frequency of movement or an atom. The Frequency CLASSIFIED BY:MSG,DAMI-ISH DIG: 051630ZJUL78 DECL: Origination Agency's Determination Required (continued) OF 6. -'~IGNAT-URE O-FSPE&A-L A-GE-N-'T----- APR 5 REPLACES WD AGO FORM 341, 1 JUN 47, WWCH MAY BE USED. 1970300 0#6 A I Fogm 4 1 7 140 kax :W W"~` el`,_r . A K Approved For Release 2000108/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 44 REPLAM WD AGO FOLIA 341, 1 JUN 47, WHICH MAY eE USED. i'x Gpoz 1970 390-907/248 I APR 52 Approved For Release 2000108108 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-ROP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 EXHIBIT COVER SHEET EXHIBIT 1: Drawings SUBJECT: SG1A CONTROL NO.: CL-987/8210/01 It U J: A T Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788 ROO 16001 002-1 or kA "7N 4A Lu Q (A ILA tn ~L I "S ~J Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1 Approved For ReleAse 2000/08108--.-,C 1ATP.PP-96-00788 ROO 1600120002-1 CO I'a .47 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1600120002-1