Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : ClAjRQP065-6&7d8 ROO 1900120001-9 IAGPA-F-SD 20 April 1983 MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD SUBJECT: CENTER LANE Interview Summary - CL-1004/8305/01 (U) 1. (SINOFORN) On 120900 April 1983, source #01 was interviewed by #66 in an attempt to locate and identify a specific item of interest. The project 8305 sponsor had provided a photograph of the type of item of interest (see Incl 1). 2 S N&F&Rfi~ For this interview source was provided a sealed o enve pe containing the photograph provided by sponsor. Sources was asked to focus his attention on the "rail yard" which he had reported in another interview (see CL-1003/8305/01, 110900 Apr 83) and look for the item depicted in the sealed envelope. Source was not shown the photograph or provided any other identifying data. The collection plan called for the use of this information as "feedback" and cuing material for possible subsequent interviews. 3. (U) A transcript of the interview was prepared including a narrative explanation of the drawings which source provided (see Incl 2). 4. (U) A DA Form 341 (Agent Report) was prepared for the sponsor. This report related the salient points of the interview. Attached as an exhibit to the DA Form 341 was a copy of source's drawings (see Incl 3). 3 Incl FREDERIC6.t~TWATER as CPT, MI OPS/TNG Officer CLASSIFIED BY; ~ISG,DAMI-TSH DTG: 051630ZJUL78 DECL: Originating Agency's Determination Required NO T llj~ I-E!, FQ:L T 0 I'G Z-I-Zll Cli R-111 Olq4LS 11 . I . II Approved For Release 2000/08/08 Cl ia"01900120001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900120001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900120001-9 r Approved For Release 2000/08/08 Opin-Murt!15-09788 Roo 1900120001-9 TRANSCRIPT #66: This will be CENTER LANE Interview for 0900 hours 12 April 1983 ....... Focus your attention now solely and completely, relax, relax and focus your attention on the area you know as the rail yard staging area. Relax. Focus on the area known to you as the rail yard staging area and the events and activities of 8 and 9 April 1983. The events of 8 and 9 April 1983. Focus and describe your perceptions to me. #01: ...Okay ..... See a ...... see an object with a ... an end shaped like a four leaf clover. It's a ... oval in shape, fairly long, maybe 12 feet long. Looks like a container, stacked 4 on a wooden platform, banded together ..... It's cartons ....... See a..an object that's towed, it's got two fold out arms and wheels that pop up of f the ground. A long straight piece that comes up in the air. #66: In a larger perspective, have you acquired the rail yard area? #01: Yes. #66: Tell me the scene you perceive. #01: Everything's being off loaded from the trains..Moved into the holding areas. Some things being loaded on the trucks, being hooked up to trucks. Crates turned side ways on "lowboys." 6 6 All right. Now I'm going to ask you to widen the time window, so that events from moment to moment are no longer perceived. A window of 24 to 48 hours, covering the whole time period 8 and 9 April 1983. As you broaden the time window and part,icular activities are longer identified, focus your attention now on the envelope I've provided. The object in the envelope, the item in the envelope and return to the scene and search out a like item or items, similar items, exactly the same as items. #01: .......... Okay ... Keep seeing the belly plates of an aircraft. Something that looks like a bread pan, nozzles. Can't tell if it's .... there's some kind of exhaust coming out of it. Impression of a-doesn't make any sense, but it looks like a flat tripod with wheels mounted cock-eyed on it. And a pointed object standing on its end. MT RELMOSABLE TO NA110NALS A or Release 2000/08/08: PA-RM,96-0,'0788ROO1900120001-9 CENT Lai Approved For Release 2000/08/08 88ROO1900120001-9 L #66: Tell me the setting in which you perceive this,, what's around the area? #01: See aircraft near it. #66: Okay. Fromf from here, where is the rail yard area? #01: It's a ... east, southeast, close enough to see, no more than 3 kilometers. These things are sitting in inside circles. #66: Ask yourself, the relationship between the aircraft area and the rail yard, ask yourself the relationship between the aircraft and the rail yard area. #01 ***** There's a .... I'm having trouble finding any relationship. Keep getting on image, keeps pounding on me, it's a, like nozzles or exhaust nozzles or spray nozzles .... It's a, these supplies are brought in by rail,, but they have something to do with aircraft. #66: Okay. I find no relation between your descriptions and the item of interest in the envelope. Perhaps there is a connection that I don't understand. #01: 1 don't a ..... #66: Let's set aside this perception and try to understand it later. #01: That's fine. #66: And focus now on the envelope and let's focus on the envelope and describe the item in the photograph in the envelope. Then we will search for that item. Focus only on the envelope and describe the item in the photograph. #01: ..... Just see a white cylinder. #66: From what perspective do you see this white cylinder? #01: Laying down, just a long white cylinder. I'm trying get a.., I don't have anything to lay against in size, but-- #66: 1 understand. tcor Release 2000/08/08-L- M"'-~kbO&0 88ROO1900120001-9 r!, CESEMnETP tR Approved For Release 2000/08/Q--" W, 10 88ROO1900120001-9 #01: Just a minute ........ It's a..fairly large, 80 feet, 70 feet, somewhere in there, seems like. 6 6 Okay. I want to check one more time here, not to describe the picture itself, but using the photograph in the envelope and describe the actual item through the photograph, access and describe the actual item. #01: See a rocket on a slanted launcher. It's got stubby little tail fins. It's very fat. #66: Okay. #01: It's not a..it's not an ... anti-aircraft type rocket, it's more of a ..... hmm, I want to say long range, but it's like short range,, salt type rocket,, 800, 900 kilometers ....... I'm not getting any of these at the site. #66: Okay. Now I have no further questions for you, but I would for a moment like to have you review the images you've had. I can tell by your voice that you, you know, you lost your concentration a little bit. But I 'd like you to review for a moment,, while you're still relaxed, and as you review, tell me any things that sometimes happens during these interviews, that you throw out overlay, because you're sure that isn't right. #01: 1 get a ... strong impression of-parts being at the target area. I don't see entire object, I see parts of it ... part here and a part there .... Seems the most common items is the exhaust parts, the nozzles, they have distinct design. #66: You seem to have described those today, yes. #01: 1 keep going to those for some reason. I see those at the target site, but I don't see a complete item like in the envelope. #66: Okay. #01: It's the only common thing I could find, everything else is pieces. #66: Okay. a nor pplo"'O ~, f* Release 2000/08/0 0-l-001900120001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/ .77~~88ROO1900120001-9 #01: There's one other thing ..... The thing in the envelope, I see in a like a slant rear launcher on a truck, a large, large truck..I don't see any of those trucks at the target. I see a tripod type apparatus that I .... keep wanting to turn into that truck. I can't, it's just a tripod. It has some commonality there, but I don't know what it is. Could be it's the same function. #66: Okay. Anything else? #01: Yes, the aircraft there, support aircraft. Ah--- #66: Break that out. #01: First impression was-these objects defend the aircraft, but it's backwards, the aircraft defend the objects. #66: Okay. #01: That's all I got. #66: Okay, fine. 4 par q, or Release 2000/O8/O%6WL-1RDP9&4#W88 ROO 1900120001-9 ilL Approved For Release 2000/08/08--C-I'A"-F~EDP9U--'D,0788 ROO 1900120001-9 DRAWING EXPLANATION #01: Okay. These are pretty much explanatory. Page #lr I rendered a, these are bits and pieces that I was getting. (A) is one view of my clover design. (B) is the bread pan shape. It seemed like it was big fat slab of soMethingr I don't know. But it was molded and rounded and everything. (C) is a nozzle that moves around. I got a feeling of exhaust or spray or something coming from it, but it's afixed to a, like a heavy metal plate of some kind and it's rotatable, you know, it moves around, points in different directions and sprays something or has an exhaust or something like that. #01: Page #2 is a, I don't want to call this anything except a concept. But I got the feeling like that this was over near the aircraft area and has something to do with targeted object. #01: Page #3 are more clover leaves. It's like a design or pattern on something. And then I had the item (F) which are my white tubes or containers. I felt like they were hollow or something. They held something in them and they were banded together in fours. #01; In page #4, 1 tried to render the truck with the launcher, but it's not coming out as a truck and a launcher. It's not like that, it's different. it has something fat sitting on the launcher. And I keep trying to make it into a rocket and I can'tl I keep coming up with something stubby and I just can't do it right, I can't render it justice, so, you can do whatever you want with that. #66: 1 understand. Anything else? #01: Nol that's all. Ohl well, I have, I have a really strong feeling, an impression that the targeted envelope, okay, is, I don't know, hlaybe it's a doctored photograph, if it's really a photograph. But I get a really strong concept feeling like. I don't know how to explain that, like I'm getting into somebody's head when I targeted that envelope today. It's was like I was getting conceptually into somebody's head and trying to get from them their concept of what the target is, that kind of thing. That's all I have. #66: Okay. Approved For Release 2000/08/08 : Cll-r~, UO-UUTUBKO01 900120001 -9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 :"PAw--.-rwqPwPT~U01900120001-9 ri to Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CM-TRYMMM"M01900120001-9 N4 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900120001-9 00~ Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900120001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/0- 88RO01 900120001-9 2 SO Approved For Release 2000/08/08 :,.CIA-~RDP96-00788 ROO 1900120001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08: ClillOw-mWFUMO-1900120001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08: CIAWOMMMOMR001900120001-9 C--r) d For ReleaS6 2 :4 788ROO1900120001-9 MM For use of this form, see FM 30-17(C); AR 381-20; the Proponent agency is the Office of the Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence. 1. NAM& OF SUBJECT OR TITLE OF INCIDENT SG1A 2. DATE SUBMITTED 3. CONTROL SYMBIX 04 FILE NUMBER CL-1004/8305/01 4. REPORT OF FINDINCIS On 12 April 1983, Source CL-1 was interviewed in an attempt to locate and identify a specific item of interest. Source was asked to describe the events and activities of the location known to him as the rail yard staging area during the period of 8 and 9 April 1983. Source stated substantially as follows: During 8 and 9 April 1983, trains were off loaded in the rail yard and equipment (not further identified) was moved into holding areas and/or loaded on "lowboys" or trucks (not further identified). Source also described an area approximately 3 kilometers away which w1s near some aircraft (not further identified) and had objects (not further identified) sitting inside circles. Source described some of the objects as white tubes, possibly 12 feet long, stacked in groups of 4, and banded together. The end of the object or stack looked like a 4 leaf clover. Source describe another object as being towed, with 2 fold out arms, wheels which came off the ground and a long straight piece that raised up into the air. Source provided drawings (see EXHIBIT I) of these objects and others which he reported as being supplies brought in by rail but having something to do with aircraft. No further amplifying information concerning the events and activities of the rail yard on 8 and 9 April 1983, was provided by Source during this interview. Attached hereto as EXHIBIT I are drawings provided by Source. WARNING NOTICE: SENSITIVE INTELLIGENCE SOURCES AND METHODS INVOLVED NOT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN NATIONALS S. TYPED NAME AND ORGANIZATION OF SPECIAL AGENT CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, DAMI-ISH DTG: 051630ZJUL78 DECL: Originating Agency's Determination Required 6. SIGNATURE OF FORM REPLACES WD AGO FORM 341. 1 JUN 47, WHICH MAY FA USED. *U.S. GLovernment Printing Officee 1912-361-64SA216 I AM 52341 Approved For Release 2000/08/QR'-rIA QF-MO- ---l-8ROO1900120001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 788R001900120001-9 US ARMY INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY COMMAND EXHIBIT COVER SHEET SG1A SUBJECT: FILE NUMBER.- CL-1004/8305/01, RELEASABLE TU FOREIGN RATI ONALS Approved For Release 200-4ftm 4 D R001900120001-9 Jr. IA Label 1. T'~ 7 P P c A Approved For Release 2000/08/ P96-00788ROO1900120001-9 d) 14 to Approved For Release 2000/WMMw.~- ~96-07788RO01 900120001-9 Approved For Release 2000/0T/'0&'7C'I4.k604+OO788 ROO 1900120001-9 5,16 IV\ Approved For Release 2000/08/08 CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900120001-9 Approved For Release 2000/08/08 ~tp~-'ftbP06~~P0788 ROO 1900120001-9 Approved For Release 200-/08/08: CIA-RDP96-00788ROO1900120001-9 Irl Approved For Release 2000/0 P 01900120001-9 Approved For Release 2000/0 QIIA-RDPW,-UU788RO01 900120001-9