"Ar Approved For Release 2001H, 0, Ef-RDP96-00788ROO1900170001-4 NCIT F.ELBASABLB,X.Q 11'011,t~I.QN 14al-WWWS IAGPA-F-SD MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD 9 June 1983 SUBJECT: CENTER LANE Interview Summary - CL-1018/8305/01 (U) 1. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) On 260800 May 1983, source #01 was interviewed by #66 in an attempt to obtain information relevant to a meeting scheduled for 26-27 May 1983. The project 8305 sponsor had provided the names of the parties of the scheduled meeting and the name of the meeting location. 2. (S/CL-3/NOFORN) For this interview the participants at the meeting were unknown to source and were identified only as Person A and Person B. The names of these individuals were sealed in envelopes and the envelopes were labled A and B. The location name and map showing the location were sealed in an envelope and the envelope was labled C. Source was asked to describe the meeting between A and B at location C on 26-27 May 1983. No further information was provided to source as the collection plan called for the use of this information as "feedback" and cuing for possible subsequent interviews. 3. (U) A transcript of the interview was prepared (see Incl 1). 4. (U) A DA Form 341 (Agent Report) was prepared for the sponsor. This report related the salient points of the interview (see Incl 2). 2 Incl as e'- ~It4WI4 ~- /=;W:- FREDERICK H. ATWATER CPT, MI OPS/TNG Officer CLASSIFIED BY: Cdr, INSCOM DECL: OADR L T E 111, L A N1 Approved For Release 2000/GZ.'RETDP96-00788R001J ql %~ 711 I&ALS To 1 10% Approved For Release 2000."',Ar11nr1--E I V:-P96-00788ROO1900170001-4 id&&a 0 3 TRANSCRIPT 6 6 This will be a CENTER LANE Interview for 0800 hours 26 May 1983 . Relax and concentrate now. Focus your attention, your awareness on the A,B,C event of today, 26 May 1983 and describe this A,B,C event to me. PAUSE #01: See a..person walking along the a ... flat area of a ... a ... this old wharf area. With cranes and things on the left. Walking towards a .... some kind of small building. See a..cargo or something. Just see loading equipment and cargo. Got two ... three people walking .... right into a...small office area. ...They're getting into a car now and they're ... driving through some gates .... It's a city by water. 6 6 All right . I'm interested, as you know, I'm interested particularly in the event of person A and person B. Check and be sure those personalities are present. #01: Um..just B is present. Driving ..... driving in a car, just a minute . ....... The meeting place is a ... much concrete, a lot of concrete,..it's tall walls of concrete,..open ... a...open raised area, like..a mall or a .... it's giant that's concrete, big buildings, tall. #66: Focus on the meeting. #01: ... Still looking for "A".. #66: 1 will wait. #01: .... Going into the tall building and .... going to like the third floor ... passinq into a large room. ..See A..he's got some people with him too. .... See .... see A and B, perhaps 6 or 7 others . Meeting is a ... first time. Appears to be friendly. #66: Tell me about the meeting. #01: They' re in this room and it's sealed . no windows . It's being guarded by other people. min Va NOT T&4T,?,kSABLE TO -pOREI ON NATIONALS -4 Bola elease 2000/08(blrfW' MD96-00788R001900170001 Approved For Release 2000* *1-i~ P96-00788RO01 900170001-4 6 6 All right . Now take a minute to go deeper, so that you can be there at the meeting . You've given me a lot of good observational things. Take a minute now to qo deeper into the meeting itself. I will wait. #01: .......... It's all a preliminary meeting. It's like a-conditional meeting. They're laying ground work for later meetings. ..See a .... some form of-discussion or..negotiation for exchange .... Talking about .... changes in a position. ..Ah..this involves a third party. ... Ah . has to do with a .... a. elimination of a . power base of a third party . Great deal of money involved. . . Exchange for taking something from a third party. ..But it's not an object, it's a .... it's a power of some kind-effectiveness. It' s like person B is selling out person not present-to person A. 6 6 Okay. Continue through the meeting and describe the attitude of the person At the person B. #01: Just a minute. ......... Person A is...a a ... very..um ... manipulative ... soft spoken; B is ... almost a spilt personality-type person .... His attitude is ... a ... one of pretension a ... portrayal, whatever is necessary. 6 6 Okay. Rather than a personality profile, I'm interested in the ebb and flow of the tide of the meeting itself. #01: Okay, just a minute. ...A..much discussion, much argument about-third person and degree of power-desired to be maintained. Ah..lot of give and take proposals-but a..I don't ... I get an impression of ... longer they discuss it, the more farther apart they become. It becomes more disagreeable. Person B is..extremely aggressive.. fanatical ... a ... see a culmination of severe spilt ... pending a, pending a ... aggressive-pending deterioration of a..agreement. I don' t see any success. Constant tugging and pulling-this meeting. #66: Describe the end of the meeting to me. J%rL&li Release 26-00&t NkPA-RDP96-00788ROO1900170001-4 Un 2 Approved For Release 2000M0-W8.s-'0 ADP96-00788ROO1900170001-4 #01: .... See a..A person. attempting reason at all the way to end. B person is ..threatening,. very threatening, ..stomps out of the room ...... issues threats and leaves. A person ... apparently frustrated but not-doesn't appear to be threatened, just frustrated at the-inability to-agree. Get an overall taste that a..... agreement is necessary to-stability somewhere, but it's a very..oblique impression, it's like more political stability than-factual. It's like a..splitting of command or something. See some involvement of other people-in the talk. Each brought other people to..aid their arguments . ..... See failure of the meeting. #66: All right. I have a couple of questions for you. #01: Okay. #66: Focusing on person A, and only on person A, describe person A to me. #01: Small..a dark skin, black hair, silver in hair . thick mustache, . very well dressed ... Wait, he's a ... scratch the mustache, there is no mustache. It's overlay, it's got many people with him that have those, but he doesn' t . ...Has a ... very disciplined appearance. .... Delicate hands, . even though he' s the one threaten, I think-he's more dangerous than B .... more cunning. #66: All right. A is recognized, is distinguished by a characteristic. 401: Just a minute. #66: U.S. Intelligence would know A by this description, by this characteristic. #01: ............ Keep getting something about the ... about the face . .... Keep wanting to say scars, but I don't see any. 6 6 Okay. Just run through your description one more time and see what comes up. Just take a look at him and just give me a police like description of him as fast as you can. or Release 2 n .4,-RDP96-00788 ROO 1900170001-4 CENTEkt'k* 3 0 Approved For Release 2000/0MKWVWMj.jjI.#I 0788ROO1900170001-4 #01: Short, 515", black -hair, dark skin and silver in hair . he's got glasses . wire rimmed glasses . a light frame, . some pock markinqs on the cheeks. That's all I get. #66: HOW old would you say he is? #01: ... 44 or 45. #66: You say he is well dressed? #01: Very disciplined dresser, yes. #66: All right. #01: Wears a closed collar. Don't see any tie though. #66: Now I have one other question. During the initial phases of this meeting, you described discussions surrounding further meetings. #01: That's correct. #66: This meeting then deteriorated away from some sort of an agreement. My question is, do you perceive a further meeting, a subsequent meeting? #01: Just a minute. #66: 1 will wait. #01: ...... I see a..meeting with a ..counter proposals..10 days, 2 weeks from the first meeting ... but in a different location. See it occurring in a place-chosen by A..person. ....B is absolutely essential to A, An some way, his capacity to provide something,..something esoteric. ...... For the first meeting, A is unwilling-to give what he has to give. #66: Who is it that's unwilling? #01: A .... think there's a mutual distrust. B has more distrust for A than A for B. And B is willing not to give what A wants,..for a price A offers. #66: And the subsequent meeting? P9 -0078 ~ir eR RfiRelease 200"A6 6 8ROO1900170001-4 4 OrMIUMMM Approved For Release 2000/0T/=~&96-00788 ROO 1900170001-4 #01: Things will be more fruitful. ...See a result of the-subsequent meeting is going to cause ... wait a minute, I lost it, just ...... be cause f or great violence over the second meeting. #66: Okay. Take a moment to collect your thoughts and try to explain that to me again. #01: Try to, just a minute . ..... I just see like, I see a spark of ... violence occurring as a result of the second meeting. #66: All right. #01: Just this ignition of violence. #66: Okay. The meeting is described as having fruitful results. #01: That's correct. 6 6 Results also include some spark of violence, some act of violence occurring? #01: No. Results of the meeting ... generate violence. #66: All right. That's good the word generate, results of the meeting, generate violence. #01: That's correct. 6 6 Okay. Can you break out the term violence. What is the raw data perceived? #01: ..See like a..time period of pause ... and then a.. just a spark of violent action, explosion, exploding into violent action all over . I don't know how to explain that. 6 6 Okay, that's fine. Okay, we've covered an encounter between A and B on the 26th, today, 26 May 83, a meeting and then a subsequent meeting. I have no further questions, but I would like you now to explore on your own. Take a few minutes now to explore on your own beyond the confines of my questions. d For Release Ping r,,iAg;RDP96-00788ROO1900170001-4 T -Crn r-7. Approved For Release 2000/08/SVW'~WRIDP96-00788 ROO 1900170001-4 #01: ........ It's like maneuver ... feeling and pulling to see the second meeting all I get. #66: All right, fine. the first meeting is . all each other out..lot of pushing limits of each other. To B, is a ... more fruitful .... That's E ~J'- 'or Release 2 -RDP96-00788RO01 900170001-4 CENT MW Approved For Re1eaW200 40ffDF`96-0078ft01 900170001.4 For use of this form, see FM 30-17(C); AS 381-20; the ProPonant agency is The Office of the Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence. 1. NAME OF SUBJECT OR MLE Or INCIDENT MEETING 4. WORT Of FINDIW.;S on 26 may 1983, source CL-1 was interviewed concerning a meeting scheduled for 26-27 may 1983. Participants at the meeting were unknown to source and were identified only as Person A and Person B. Source described the mee-ting substantially as follows: The meeting took place in a guarded room which had no windows. This room was on the third floor of a multi story building located in an open or raised area characterized by tall walls of concrete. This city (not further identified) was by water (riot further identified). Source described the initial phase of the meeting as f r ieridly. This was a preliminary or conditional meeting in which plans were made for later meetings. During the meeting Person A and Person B discussed or negotiated for an exchange (not further identified) or change in a position (not further identified) concerning a third party (not further identified). The subject of the discussion was the elimination of a "power base" of this third party. The negotiation involved a great deal of money (not further identified) in exchange for taking something, not necessarily an objecti, but more likely a "power" or "effectiveness" of some kind (not further identified) from the third party. Source summarized by stating, "it's like Person B is selling out person not present to Person A." Later in the meeting an argument developed concerning the "degree of power" which was to be maintained by the - unidentified third party. Many "give and take proposals" (not further identified) were presented but these discussions became disagreeable. Person B was extremely aggressive. The meeting ended with person A attempting to reason with Person B. Person B issued threats (not further identified) and left ARNING NOTICE: SENSITIVE NTELLIGENCE SOURCES AND ETHODS INVOLVED OT RELEASABLE TO FOREIGN ATIONALS CLASSIFIED BY: MSG, DAMI-ISH DTG: 051630ZJUL.78 DECL: originating Agency's Determination Involved 2. DATE SU&MiTTED 3. CONISOL SYMbOt OR Fite NUMSER CL-1018/8305/01 (continued) 3. TYPED NAME AND ORGANIZATION OF SPECIAL AGENT 6. AGENT J*2 -%414461621% FoRm I A DF`96-00788RW1r9M?00Vt I A*PPFMe1J PV1iA(RdM%69R2"04=- 3 - P., C Approved For Rele&e' 20000/00 96-0078ffRO01 900170001-4 For tise of th is form, see FM 30-17(C); A R 381-20; the Proponent agency Is the Office of the Assistant Chi *f a, I Staff for Intel I I gence. DA-ff SUi.71TTED' I. SAME OF S05JECT OR TITLE OF INCIDENT 3. COWROL SYMSOL Oft FILE NUMIftit MEETING 4. IMMAT Of FMINGS CL-1018/8305/01 the meeting. Person A did not appear to be concerned about Person B's threats but was frustrated at the inability to come to some agree-ment'at, the meeting. Source reported that agreement at the meeting was necessary to stability, perhaps political (not stability further identified), som ewhere (not further identified). Source also reported that both Person A and Person B brought other people (riot furtheridentified) to this meeting "to aid their arguments." When asked about a possible subsequent meeting between Person A and Person B because of the lack of agreement at this meeting, Source reported a meeting with counter proposals approximately 10 days to 2 weeks from the first meeting. Source reported that this later meeting was to take place at a different location chosen by Person A (location not further identified). Source stated that Person B was absolutely essential to Person A in some way (not further identified), or in his capacity to provide something esoteric (not further identified). During the first meeting Person A was unwilling to give what he must, but at the subsequent meeting Source reported "more fruitful" (not further identified) results. In addition, Source reported violence or the ignition of violence (not further identified) generated by the results of the second meeting. Source described Person A as follows: 44 or 45 years old Small, short, 5'5' tall Light framed Black hair with some silver in it. Dark skinned Wore wire rimmed Pock markings or Delicate hands Very well dressed Very disciplined glasses scars on cheeks with closed collar, no tie appearance Source did not describe Person B. (coritinued) S. TYPED NAME AND ORGANIZATION OF SPECIAL AGENT 6. & FORM At AP-Ap;Ald McRtleftePANO MV KITMOP rymn Approved For Releamsme 2000/08/0 " : IN-696-00789ROO1900170001-4 )8/0F TIA m ,a.L- UAL I